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Old 10-21-2008, 06:32 PM
Brian Pepple
 
Default Plan for tomorrows (20081022) FESCO meeting

Hi,

Please find below the list of topics that are likely to come up in the
next FESCo meeting that is scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday at 17:00
UTC in #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.org:

/topic FESCo-Meeting -- sponsor nominations -- Andreas Thienemann (ixs)

/topic FESCo-Meeting -- adjusting post-beta snapshots -
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg01994.html - all

/topic FESCo-Meeting -- Features - Sbin Sanity -
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00337.html - Ville Skyttä

/topic FESCo-Meeting -- Features - all

/topic FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora

You want something to be discussed? Send a note to the list in reply to
this mail and I'll add it to the schedule. You can also propose topics
in the meeting while it is in the "Free discussion around Fedora" phase.

Later,
/B
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Old 10-22-2008, 03:48 PM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Plan for tomorrows (20081022) FESCO meeting

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:32:13 -0400
bpepple@fedoraproject.org (Brian Pepple) wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Please find below the list of topics that are likely to come up in the
> next FESCo meeting that is scheduled for tomorrow, Wednesday at 17:00
> UTC in #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.org:

I am out traveling/vacationing, and thus might miss the meeting.
I'll try and make it, but if not...

> /topic FESCo-Meeting -- sponsor nominations -- Andreas Thienemann
> (ixs)

+1 from me.

> /topic FESCo-Meeting -- adjusting post-beta snapshots -
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg01994.html
> - all

+1 from me.

> /topic FESCo-Meeting -- Features - Sbin Sanity -
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00337.html
> - Ville Skyttä

Are the feature owners going to be there to defend their feature?
I think that those folks having problems with tab completion or sudo
now will be much more able to modify their setup than the millions of
people who get confused because they can't run ifconfig after 'su' or
just as their user to gather information.

So, my vote would be to keep the feature as it is, but add
documentation or other info to help the folks that are negatively
impacted by this feature to get their setup back to the way they like.
Release notes?

> /topic FESCo-Meeting -- Features - all
>
> /topic FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora
>
> You want something to be discussed? Send a note to the list in reply
> to this mail and I'll add it to the schedule. You can also propose
> topics in the meeting while it is in the "Free discussion around
> Fedora" phase.

We may want to discuss and answer:
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/8#comment:2
We said we want no 'compat-python24' in Fedora, but what about a
private copy of it to allow zope to work?

> Later,
> /B

kevin
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Old 10-22-2008, 03:59 PM
"Tom "spot" Callaway"
 
Default Plan for tomorrows (20081022) FESCO meeting

On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 09:48 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> We said we want no 'compat-python24' in Fedora, but what about a
> private copy of it to allow zope to work?

For what its worth, this would violate the Packaging Guidelines:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Bundling_of_multiple_projects

We wouldn't let it bundle in an old copy of libc if it needed libc5. Its
time Zope moved into the 21st century.

~spot

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Old 10-22-2008, 04:20 PM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Plan for tomorrows (20081022) FESCO meeting

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:59:31 -0400
tcallawa@redhat.com ("Tom "spot" Callaway") wrote:

> On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 09:48 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > We said we want no 'compat-python24' in Fedora, but what about a
> > private copy of it to allow zope to work?
>
> For what its worth, this would violate the Packaging Guidelines:
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Bundling_of_multiple_projects
>
> We wouldn't let it bundle in an old copy of libc if it needed libc5.
> Its time Zope moved into the 21st century.

Ah ha. I looked for such a guideline, but couldn't find it for some
reason.

Thanks for clarifying.

>
> ~spot
>

kevin
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Old 10-22-2008, 04:55 PM
Ville Skyttä
 
Default Plan for tomorrows (20081022) FESCO meeting

On Wednesday 22 October 2008, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:32:13 -0400
>
> > /topic FESCo-Meeting -- Features - Sbin Sanity -
> > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00337.h
> >tml - Ville Skyttä
>
> Are the feature owners going to be there to defend their feature?
> I think that those folks having problems with tab completion or sudo
> now will be much more able to modify their setup than the millions of
> people who get confused because they can't run ifconfig after 'su' or
> just as their user to gather information.
>
> So, my vote would be to keep the feature as it is, but add
> documentation or other info to help the folks that are negatively
> impacted by this feature to get their setup back to the way they like.
> Release notes?

One of the crucial points is that once */sbin is in PATH for everyone, things
will start assuming that those things indeed are always in PATH. After that,
local modifications that remove */sbin from PATH will result in breakage and
thus _cannot_ be feasibly done.

Reverting this feature *now* is just about the last possibility to do it
without inflicting breakage. It will delay getting "millions of people who
get confused" unconfused somewhat (== until F-11 I guess, and incremental
improvements are easy to make later on as/if we find places to do them - even
to earlier distro versions), but as I've said many times, IMNSHO (and not
only mine) slight delay is a lot better than either the messy "*/sbin in PATH
for good" result, or later trying to pry */sbin ouf of there, causing
breakage.

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Old 10-22-2008, 07:54 PM
Denis Leroy
 
Default Plan for tomorrows (20081022) FESCO meeting

Tom "spot" Callaway wrote:

Its time Zope moved into the 21st century.


What do Zope developers say about the python upgrade ?

And to play devil's advocate, what would be their incentive to upgrade
if, for example, they're perfectly happy with 2.4 ("if it ain't broken,
don't fix it") and the upgrade would invalidate, say, 6 months of test
validation and qualification ? I'm not saying that's true (I have no
idea), this is just for argument's sake :-)


I remember back in a previous job where we used a gigantic (as in,
gigantic) Perl script to run all sorts of hardware verification stuff.
Every single minor Perl update meant 1 week of chasing and nailing down
bugs. Granted, that was years ago and stuff is more stable now, but I
can imagine some people would not be happy being "coerced" into
upgrading a critical component...


denis

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