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Old 10-21-2008, 01:35 AM
Ian Weller
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 07:44:22PM -0400, Dr. Diesel wrote:
> I didn't even know this option existed, and man does it look better!
> Considering 95% of displays are now LCDs should this option be the
> default?
>
For the record, it made things look like utter crap on my display. And
it's an LCD. If people want it, they can get it.

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Old 10-21-2008, 01:23 PM
Matthew Garrett
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 08:35:11PM -0500, Ian Weller wrote:

> For the record, it made things look like utter crap on my display. And
> it's an LCD. If people want it, they can get it.

Bug number?

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Old 10-21-2008, 02:16 PM
"Dr. Diesel"
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

2008/10/20 Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com>:
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 07:44:22PM -0400, Dr. Diesel wrote:
>> I didn't even know this option existed, and man does it look better!
>> Considering 95% of displays are now LCDs should this option be the
>> default?
>>
> For the record, it made things look like utter crap on my display. And
> it's an LCD. If people want it, they can get it.
>

I'm willing to bet the vast majority will find it looks better, if in
your case, they can turn it off...


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Old 10-21-2008, 02:38 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 09:16:48AM -0500, Dr. Diesel wrote:
> >> I didn't even know this option existed, and man does it look better!
> >> Considering 95% of displays are now LCDs should this option be the
> >> default?
> > For the record, it made things look like utter crap on my display. And
> > it's an LCD. If people want it, they can get it.
> I'm willing to bet the vast majority will find it looks better, if in
> your case, they can turn it off...

It depends a lot on your monitor. If you've got relatively large pixels, the
colored fringes can be very visible and distracting. If you've got a
high-PPI monitor, it can look quite good -- but then, of course, you need
it less.

I also find that it looks much worse for light text on black background
(i.e. old-school terminal windows) than for dark text on light (the typical
modern default terminals and most modern web sites).

But here's my concern with making it the default: if you get the subpixel
layout wrong, it looks very very bad. What percentage of monitors are RGB
instead of BGR? (Might it be possible for HAL (or something) to tell the
desktop enviroment this?) What about tablets? -- if you rotate the screen
90°, your text is definitely horribly wrong in one of the orientations.


<http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/subpixel.php> is useful here, by the way. It'd
be nice if the desktop UIs for this option presented a similar test (if
indeed there is no good way to get the information automatically.)


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Old 10-21-2008, 02:40 PM
"Nicolas Mailhot"
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

Le Mar 21 octobre 2008 15:23, Matthew Garrett a écrit :
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 08:35:11PM -0500, Ian Weller wrote:
>
>> For the record, it made things look like utter crap on my display.
>> And
>> it's an LCD. If people want it, they can get it.
>
> Bug number?

Subpixel works well on laptops. On desktops people tend to be more
sensitive to the color fringes even if they do have a LCD. Grayscale
works best in that case.

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Old 10-21-2008, 02:53 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 04:40:23PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Subpixel works well on laptops. On desktops people tend to be more
> sensitive to the color fringes even if they do have a LCD. Grayscale
> works best in that case.

Interesting observation. I expect this is due at least in part to what I
noted about resolution and pixels-per-inch: my nice big LCD screen has 89ppi
(full pixels), whereas my Vaio U101 has 180ppi. The later is an extremely
nice little screen, but even a more typical laptop generally has over 100.

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Old 10-21-2008, 03:17 PM
"Nicolas Mailhot"
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

Le Mar 21 octobre 2008 16:53, Matthew Miller a écrit :
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 04:40:23PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>> Subpixel works well on laptops. On desktops people tend to be more
>> sensitive to the color fringes even if they do have a LCD. Grayscale
>> works best in that case.
>
> Interesting observation. I expect this is due at least in part to what
> I
> noted about resolution and pixels-per-inch: my nice big LCD screen has
> 89ppi
> (full pixels), whereas my Vaio U101 has 180ppi. The later is an
> extremely
> nice little screen, but even a more typical laptop generally has over
> 100.

That and people who use laptops have usually already compromised a lot
on the screen part, so they accept fringing better.

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Old 10-21-2008, 03:38 PM
Adam Jackson
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 10:38 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:

> It depends a lot on your monitor. If you've got relatively large pixels, the
> colored fringes can be very visible and distracting. If you've got a
> high-PPI monitor, it can look quite good -- but then, of course, you need
> it less.
>
> I also find that it looks much worse for light text on black background
> (i.e. old-school terminal windows) than for dark text on light (the typical
> modern default terminals and most modern web sites).
>
> But here's my concern with making it the default: if you get the subpixel
> layout wrong, it looks very very bad. What percentage of monitors are RGB
> instead of BGR? (Might it be possible for HAL (or something) to tell the
> desktop enviroment this?) What about tablets? -- if you rotate the screen
> 90°, your text is definitely horribly wrong in one of the orientations.

Monitors are overwhelmingly RGB left to right. EDID has an extension
for telling you about this, but it's typically not provided, so for the
most part we just guess RGB and tend to be right.

In RANDR 1.2 pixel layout is available as a per-output property, so in
principle you can get this right on every piece of glass. If you have
one rotated and one normal though, there's no getting it right, short of
fixing gtk to re-render glyphs where the window straddles or crosses
screen boundaries, or just falling back to grayscale AA for everything.

- ajax
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:35 PM
"Pavel Shevchuk"
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

Isn't subpixel rendering patent-encumbered thing? AFAIK by default
there's only grayscale antialiasing unless you install
freetype-freeworld

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:44 AM, Dr. Diesel <dr.diesel@gmail.com> wrote:
> I didn't even know this option existed, and man does it look better!
> Considering 95% of displays are now LCDs should this option be the
> default?
>
>
>
> --
> projecthuh.com
> All of my bits are free, are yours? Fedoraproject.org
>
> --
> fedora-devel-list mailing list
> fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
>



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Old 10-21-2008, 04:56 PM
"Peter Robinson"
 
Default Make subpixel smoothing default?

> Isn't subpixel rendering patent-encumbered thing? AFAIK by default
> there's only grayscale antialiasing unless you install
> freetype-freeworld

Yes, there's been some discussion on this on the cairo mailing list
over the month or two. It seems there cooking up some patch to support
it. It was originally planned for cairo 1.8 but was dropped for some
reason.

Peter

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