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Old 10-16-2008, 02:29 PM
John Reiser
 
Default minimum memory requirements

Jon Masters wrote:

Something is using a lot of memory (anaconda) ...


At which anaconda install dialog do you see the Out-Of-Memory crash?

The Debian Installer runs the disk partitioner as the very first task
(using character-cell graphics), in order to get swap [paging] space
so that tasks which come afterwards can use more virtual space.

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Old 10-16-2008, 02:35 PM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 01:54:08PM +0300, Aioanei Rares wrote:
> x86_64 requires more disk space/RAM because of the libraries. But it
> still would be nice if we could come up with some idea to un-bloat
> various aspects in Fedora, aspects which attract a somehow negative
> image upon the distribution.

Indeed ... at my last job I routinely ran x86_64 Debian virtual
machines in 64 MB of RAM.

I'd bump them up to 128 MB or, on one occasion 256 MB of RAM, if they
were doing anything special, like running a medium-traffic webserver.

Rich.

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Old 10-16-2008, 02:44 PM
Jon Masters
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 15:35 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 01:54:08PM +0300, Aioanei Rares wrote:
> > x86_64 requires more disk space/RAM because of the libraries. But it
> > still would be nice if we could come up with some idea to un-bloat
> > various aspects in Fedora, aspects which attract a somehow negative
> > image upon the distribution.
>
> Indeed ... at my last job I routinely ran x86_64 Debian virtual
> machines in 64 MB of RAM.
>
> I'd bump them up to 128 MB or, on one occasion 256 MB of RAM, if they
> were doing anything special, like running a medium-traffic webserver.

To be fair, they probably didn't have a desktop to carry along for the
ride. But then I guess I could counter that the problem here is I
couldn't even run the installer with less than 384MB RAM. I dropped it
down to 256MB after install but then had to bump it back up again - and
I expect the first time I run yum I'll want to put it back to 512MB.

I had been trying to reduce VM memory sizes to run more at once...

Jon.


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Old 10-16-2008, 02:48 PM
James Antill
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 06:21 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 11:47 +0300, Aioanei Rares wrote:
>
> >
> > Gah, ignore me. I meant to install i386 earlier but wound up
> > installing
> > an x86_64 image which accounts for the difference. And the
> > docs agree
> > fully with my subsequent experience
>
>
> > Either way, I think you're right...the req's are kinda high...
>
> Well, yes. I will do an i386 install later and compare. I don't really
> blame the *x86_64* figures for being so high, largely because any system
> featuring an x86_64 probably never had less than 256MB RAM and 512MB
> really isn't all that much to be expecting these days. It'd just be
> nicer if we could install in a virtual machine with less allocated.

I had a feature request open to have the x86_64 installer actually be
a .i386 python/yum/anaconda (anaconda does not currently need more than
4GB of virtual space . Which would make the installer size
requirements for x86_64 be the same:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=437914

Feel free to pile on the love to clumens .

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Old 10-16-2008, 02:51 PM
Jon Masters
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 10:48 -0400, James Antill wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 06:21 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
> > On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 11:47 +0300, Aioanei Rares wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Gah, ignore me. I meant to install i386 earlier but wound up
> > > installing
> > > an x86_64 image which accounts for the difference. And the
> > > docs agree
> > > fully with my subsequent experience
> >
> >
> > > Either way, I think you're right...the req's are kinda high...
> >
> > Well, yes. I will do an i386 install later and compare. I don't really
> > blame the *x86_64* figures for being so high, largely because any system
> > featuring an x86_64 probably never had less than 256MB RAM and 512MB
> > really isn't all that much to be expecting these days. It'd just be
> > nicer if we could install in a virtual machine with less allocated.
>
> I had a feature request open to have the x86_64 installer actually be
> a .i386 python/yum/anaconda (anaconda does not currently need more than
> 4GB of virtual space . Which would make the installer size
> requirements for x86_64 be the same:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=437914
>
> Feel free to pile on the love to clumens .

I hate to say it, but that makes a lot of sense. A disturbing amount of
sense - glad it was already on the radar

Jon.


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Old 10-16-2008, 04:07 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 10:44 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
>
> To be fair, they probably didn't have a desktop to carry along for the
> ride. But then I guess I could counter that the problem here is I
> couldn't even run the installer with less than 384MB RAM. I dropped it
> down to 256MB after install but then had to bump it back up again - and
> I expect the first time I run yum I'll want to put it back to 512MB.
>
> I had been trying to reduce VM memory sizes to run more at once...

You haven't yet stated your install type and method, which can make a
huge difference.

Graphical install type, booted from just vmlinuz and initrd.img and
subsequently downloading stage2 from the network is going to have
a /much/ higher memory footprint than if you were to boot from boot.iso
(which has stage2 on it), do a text mode install from whatever method.

You see, if you have to download stage2, you're downloading it to memory
based filesystem and losing that much memory just to the storage of the
file.

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Old 10-16-2008, 06:08 PM
Jon Masters
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 09:07 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 10:44 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
> >
> > To be fair, they probably didn't have a desktop to carry along for the
> > ride. But then I guess I could counter that the problem here is I
> > couldn't even run the installer with less than 384MB RAM. I dropped it
> > down to 256MB after install but then had to bump it back up again - and
> > I expect the first time I run yum I'll want to put it back to 512MB.
> >
> > I had been trying to reduce VM memory sizes to run more at once...
>
> You haven't yet stated your install type and method, which can make a
> huge difference.

Ah, this was rawhide done from a boot.iso image.

> Graphical install type, booted from just vmlinuz and initrd.img and
> subsequently downloading stage2 from the network is going to have
> a /much/ higher memory footprint than if you were to boot from boot.iso
> (which has stage2 on it), do a text mode install from whatever method.

True, I know I could just do a text mode install.

> You see, if you have to download stage2, you're downloading it to memory
> based filesystem and losing that much memory just to the storage of the
> file.

I'm not sure that's the case any more though. There used to be a stage1
and a stage2 image for Anaconda, but now I think it's all a live image
within that 100+ MB boot.iso file, without a separate download stage2.
Perhaps I'll do another install later and switch to the console (it's
cool that there's a usable shell early on now too) to check tmpfs.

Jon.


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Old 10-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Jeremy Katz
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 14:08 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 09:07 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 10:44 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
> > >
> > > To be fair, they probably didn't have a desktop to carry along for the
> > > ride. But then I guess I could counter that the problem here is I
> > > couldn't even run the installer with less than 384MB RAM. I dropped it
> > > down to 256MB after install but then had to bump it back up again - and
> > > I expect the first time I run yum I'll want to put it back to 512MB.
> > >
> > > I had been trying to reduce VM memory sizes to run more at once...
> >
> > You haven't yet stated your install type and method, which can make a
> > huge difference.
>
> Ah, this was rawhide done from a boot.iso image.
>
> > Graphical install type, booted from just vmlinuz and initrd.img and
> > subsequently downloading stage2 from the network is going to have
> > a /much/ higher memory footprint than if you were to boot from boot.iso
> > (which has stage2 on it), do a text mode install from whatever method.
>
> True, I know I could just do a text mode install.
>
> > You see, if you have to download stage2, you're downloading it to memory
> > based filesystem and losing that much memory just to the storage of the
> > file.
>
> I'm not sure that's the case any more though. There used to be a stage1
> and a stage2 image for Anaconda, but now I think it's all a live image
> within that 100+ MB boot.iso file, without a separate download stage2.
> Perhaps I'll do another install later and switch to the console (it's
> cool that there's a usable shell early on now too) to check tmpfs.

No, there's still a separate first and second stage. The first stage is
larger due to us using standard system functionality like NetworkManager
and there's no longer a (not-so-)minimal stage2 image as the size
difference was getting close to zero.

If you're booting from CD, the problem is that we have to copy the
stage2 off of the CD and into RAM so that you can later change CDs to
put in installation CDs. There's unfortunately not much of a way around
it

Jeremy

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Old 10-16-2008, 06:15 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 14:08 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
> > You see, if you have to download stage2, you're downloading it to memory
> > based filesystem and losing that much memory just to the storage of the
> > file.
>
> I'm not sure that's the case any more though. There used to be a stage1
> and a stage2 image for Anaconda, but now I think it's all a live image
> within that 100+ MB boot.iso file, without a separate download stage2.
> Perhaps I'll do another install later and switch to the console (it's
> cool that there's a usable shell early on now too) to check tmpfs.

Correction. There used to be a boot.iso and a rescue.iso. The boot.iso
of old only had stage 1 on it. The rescue.iso had both stage1 and
stage2 (different files!). We got rid of boot.iso, renamed rescue.iso
to boot.iso (as well as netinst.iso), and kept it the way it was, stage1
and stage2, different files.

In the exploded tree, stage1 and stage2 are different files. In fact,
there are a few different variations of each depending on what you're
doing. PXE booting doesn't like it very much if you try to shove the
100+meg file down it as a combined stage1/2, so we have a much smaller
stage1 which then gets stage2 via a more reliable method.

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Old 10-16-2008, 06:22 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default minimum memory requirements

On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 14:13 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> If you're booting from CD, the problem is that we have to copy the
> stage2 off of the CD and into RAM so that you can later change CDs to
> put in installation CDs. There's unfortunately not much of a way
> around
> it

Is that true when doing boot.iso install + network repo install method?

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