On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Benny Amorsen <benny+usenet@amorsen.dk> wrote:
> Denis Leroy <denis@poolshark.org> writes:
> ctrl-alt-f1 is iffy on a lot of machines. Sometimes you need a reboot
> to get back to X. Having the kernel involved in the whole affair has a
> somewhat better chance of working. Well that or we might get a Linus
> rant; that often gets things fixed a bit faster.


What machine is that? I've been installing Redhat/Fedora/Centos since
2003, not that long, but I have never seen Ctrl+Alt+F1 be iffy

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On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 23:13 +0200, Benny Amorsen wrote:
> Suren Karapetyan <surenkarapetyan@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Having to run X (and you know... it won't start with less then 256M
> > ram) on every machine with Fedora is a real problem.
>
> The Nokia 770 runs X. Back in the day, 8MB 486's ran X. Heck, Sun 5-60's
> (68020's with 6MB of memory) ran X quite nicely. When you see X in
> "top", a lot of its memory use is actually graphics card memory.

I had and 486 at the time with 8MB and I can assure you that X was the
*only* process running when I tried to use it (ie it used all memory and
some swap and the machine was basically dieing for the swapping)

When I had money to go 12MB X became slightly usable with some Xterms,
Xeyes and friends. Nothing fancy tho or swapping would start killing
your machine again.

However 32MB of ram will run X with a minimal Window Manager and apps
really well, especially at lower resolutions.

> An X solution is not impossible. I'm not saying it's the answer, but
> you can't rule it out like that.

On this I can agree

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Arthur Pemberton wrote:

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Benny Amorsen <benny+usenet@amorsen.dk> wrote:

Denis Leroy <denis@poolshark.org> writes:
ctrl-alt-f1 is iffy on a lot of machines. Sometimes you need a reboot
to get back to X. Having the kernel involved in the whole affair has a
somewhat better chance of working. Well that or we might get a Linus
rant; that often gets things fixed a bit faster.



What machine is that? I've been installing Redhat/Fedora/Centos since
2003, not that long, but I have never seen Ctrl+Alt+F1 be iffy


It is not hardware specific. If you do that often enough, you will
probably hit it sometime or the other. It is not easily reproducible
however.


Rahul

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On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:04:39PM +0200, Benny Amorsen wrote:
> ctrl-alt-f1 is iffy on a lot of machines. Sometimes you need a reboot
> to get back to X. Having the kernel involved in the whole affair has a

That would be an X bug. X handles all the mode switching logic for this
stuff. There are good reasons to get the kernel involved these days (for one
we've gone from fifty or more vendors down to about five of any relevance
and they tend to use sensible means for mode switching) but it won't really
change any reliability in that area.

What it will help with is stuff like recovering from an X crash, implementing
full SAK support and oops display.


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On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 04:27:38AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> It is not hardware specific. If you do that often enough, you will

That I doubt.

> probably hit it sometime or the other. It is not easily reproducible
> however.

The mode switch logic is driver specific so would be hardware specific in X

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On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 06:57:18PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> However 32MB of ram will run X with a minimal Window Manager and apps
> really well, especially at lower resolutions.

It also depends on your X server. XFree86 is not small, clean or efficient
compare to things like KDrive. X is a protocol with a bloated nasty default
implementation which is only slowly recovering from twenty years of neglect

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Alan Cox wrote:

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 04:27:38AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
It is not hardware specific. If you do that often enough, you will


That I doubt.

probably hit it sometime or the other. It is not easily reproducible
however.


The mode switch logic is driver specific so would be hardware specific in X


Yes, I wasn't very clear. What I meant was it occurs in many systems
rather than being limited to one particular hardware.


Rahul

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On 13/09/2008, Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org> wrote:

> I just tried this too with GDM, and got speech too. I right clicked
> in the lower left of the screen, checked the "Read text" option, and
> moused over and heard sound. Have you filed a bug about this issue?

Good grief. You're actually telling people who NEED A SCREEN READER to
right click and read the text (which might be too small)??

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On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Bill Crawford
<billcrawford1970@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13/09/2008, Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org> wrote:
>
>> I just tried this too with GDM, and got speech too. I right clicked
>> in the lower left of the screen, checked the "Read text" option, and
>> moused over and heard sound. Have you filed a bug about this issue?
>
> Good grief. You're actually telling people who NEED A SCREEN READER to
> right click and read the text (which might be too small)??

No. I followed up with a post about how this can be enabled by
default, and there is a keybinding as well.

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Colin Walters writes:
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Bill Crawford
> <billcrawford1970@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 13/09/2008, Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I just tried this too with GDM, and got speech too. I right clicked
> >> in the lower left of the screen, checked the "Read text" option, and
> >> moused over and heard sound. Have you filed a bug about this issue?
> >
> > Good grief. You're actually telling people who NEED A SCREEN READER to
> > right click and read the text (which might be too small)??
>
> No. I followed up with a post about how this can be enabled by
> default, and there is a keybinding as well.
>
Except that the key combo doesn't work. And, it seems Matthias now
agrees there's a bug re the availability of pulse audio:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=462537

Janina

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