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Old 08-19-2008, 05:26 AM
"Martin Langhoff"
 
Default After running chkconfig... daemon up after install?

Is there a canonical procedure for either the %post or the caller of
rpm/yum to start any daemons that may have been installed? Doing a
service foo start is a no-no in %post, as the install may be happening
in a context that is not a normal install. But there must be a way to
give users happy fluffy bunnies and working active software after they
install a daemon in a "running machine" context.

Pointers welcome - this is probably a FAQ but googling around I can't
find anything that looks like the appropriate answer.

cheers,



m
--
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martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Old 08-19-2008, 12:47 PM
Jeremy Katz
 
Default After running chkconfig... daemon up after install?

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:26 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> Is there a canonical procedure for either the %post or the caller of
> rpm/yum to start any daemons that may have been installed? Doing a
> service foo start is a no-no in %post, as the install may be happening
> in a context that is not a normal install. But there must be a way to
> give users happy fluffy bunnies and working active software after they
> install a daemon in a "running machine" context.
>
> Pointers welcome - this is probably a FAQ but googling around I can't
> find anything that looks like the appropriate answer.

It's explicitly something that you're not supposed to do. As you say,
there are lots of non-normal install contexts in which packages get
installed. And all of those use the same toolchain for installing
packages as the regular install path.

Jeremy

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Old 08-19-2008, 07:23 PM
Thomas M Steenholdt
 
Default After running chkconfig... daemon up after install?

Jeremy Katz wrote:

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:26 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:

Is there a canonical procedure for either the %post or the caller of
rpm/yum to start any daemons that may have been installed? Doing a
service foo start is a no-no in %post, as the install may be happening
in a context that is not a normal install. But there must be a way to
give users happy fluffy bunnies and working active software after they
install a daemon in a "running machine" context.

Pointers welcome - this is probably a FAQ but googling around I can't
find anything that looks like the appropriate answer.


It's explicitly something that you're not supposed to do. As you say,
there are lots of non-normal install contexts in which packages get
installed. And all of those use the same toolchain for installing
packages as the regular install path.


Jeremy



Also, while there must be a reason for the user to install the daemon
package in the first place, it seems fair to at least give him the
opportunity to configure it before firing it up...


Actually, in most cases (at least for post-initial-install installed
daemons), it probably makes sense to leave them chkconfig off'ed too?


/Thomas

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Old 08-19-2008, 07:29 PM
Seth Vidal
 
Default After running chkconfig... daemon up after install?

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:23 -0200, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote:
> Jeremy Katz wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:26 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> >> Is there a canonical procedure for either the %post or the caller of
> >> rpm/yum to start any daemons that may have been installed? Doing a
> >> service foo start is a no-no in %post, as the install may be happening
> >> in a context that is not a normal install. But there must be a way to
> >> give users happy fluffy bunnies and working active software after they
> >> install a daemon in a "running machine" context.
> >>
> >> Pointers welcome - this is probably a FAQ but googling around I can't
> >> find anything that looks like the appropriate answer.
> >
> > It's explicitly something that you're not supposed to do. As you say,
> > there are lots of non-normal install contexts in which packages get
> > installed. And all of those use the same toolchain for installing
> > packages as the regular install path.
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
>
> Also, while there must be a reason for the user to install the daemon
> package in the first place, it seems fair to at least give him the
> opportunity to configure it before firing it up...
>
> Actually, in most cases (at least for post-initial-install installed
> daemons), it probably makes sense to leave them chkconfig off'ed too?

default for daemons, imo, should be off.

That way we're not opening someone up to a problem just by installing
the pkg.


-sv


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Old 08-19-2008, 08:08 PM
Rob Crittenden
 
Default After running chkconfig... daemon up after install?

Seth Vidal wrote:

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:23 -0200, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote:

Jeremy Katz wrote:

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:26 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:

Is there a canonical procedure for either the %post or the caller of
rpm/yum to start any daemons that may have been installed? Doing a
service foo start is a no-no in %post, as the install may be happening
in a context that is not a normal install. But there must be a way to
give users happy fluffy bunnies and working active software after they
install a daemon in a "running machine" context.

Pointers welcome - this is probably a FAQ but googling around I can't
find anything that looks like the appropriate answer.

It's explicitly something that you're not supposed to do. As you say,
there are lots of non-normal install contexts in which packages get
installed. And all of those use the same toolchain for installing
packages as the regular install path.


Jeremy

Also, while there must be a reason for the user to install the daemon
package in the first place, it seems fair to at least give him the
opportunity to configure it before firing it up...


Actually, in most cases (at least for post-initial-install installed
daemons), it probably makes sense to leave them chkconfig off'ed too?


default for daemons, imo, should be off.

That way we're not opening someone up to a problem just by installing
the pkg.


How about a condrestart for a service already running?

rob
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:19 PM
Seth Vidal
 
Default After running chkconfig... daemon up after install?

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 16:08 -0400, Rob Crittenden wrote:
> Seth Vidal wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:23 -0200, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote:
> >> Jeremy Katz wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:26 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> >>>> Is there a canonical procedure for either the %post or the caller of
> >>>> rpm/yum to start any daemons that may have been installed? Doing a
> >>>> service foo start is a no-no in %post, as the install may be happening
> >>>> in a context that is not a normal install. But there must be a way to
> >>>> give users happy fluffy bunnies and working active software after they
> >>>> install a daemon in a "running machine" context.
> >>>>
> >>>> Pointers welcome - this is probably a FAQ but googling around I can't
> >>>> find anything that looks like the appropriate answer.
> >>> It's explicitly something that you're not supposed to do. As you say,
> >>> there are lots of non-normal install contexts in which packages get
> >>> installed. And all of those use the same toolchain for installing
> >>> packages as the regular install path.
> >>>
> >>> Jeremy
> >>>
> >> Also, while there must be a reason for the user to install the daemon
> >> package in the first place, it seems fair to at least give him the
> >> opportunity to configure it before firing it up...
> >>
> >> Actually, in most cases (at least for post-initial-install installed
> >> daemons), it probably makes sense to leave them chkconfig off'ed too?
> >
> > default for daemons, imo, should be off.
> >
> > That way we're not opening someone up to a problem just by installing
> > the pkg.
>
> How about a condrestart for a service already running?
>

sure.

-sv


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Old 08-19-2008, 11:01 PM
"Martin Langhoff"
 
Default After running chkconfig... daemon up after install?

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:47 AM, Jeremy Katz <katzj@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:26 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
>> Is there a canonical procedure for either the %post or the caller of
>> rpm/yum to start any daemons that may have been installed?

> It's explicitly something that you're not supposed to do.

Ok. What should the _sysadmin_ do then?

For the OLPC School Server stuff I'd like to be able to say in the
release notes:

- Update the installed packages by pulling the metapackage
$ yum install xs-pkgs
- Start any newly installed daemons
$ <command>

The metapackage includes a 'configuration' package that updates all
the configs we can apply automagically, and does chkconfig on those
daemons for the appropriate runlevels. Daemons that do need local
intervention are set to not run.

So I guess I'm lookingfor something like invoking 'init
<desiredrunlevel>' but that checks for any daemons that are down and
starts them if they should be up. init doesn't do anything because we
are _already_ in the appropriate runlevel.

Manpages for service, init, telinit, chkconfig, initctl and friends
don't seem to give any hints. ?

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Seth Vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> default for daemons, imo, should be off.
>
> That way we're not opening someone up to a problem just by installing
> the pkg.

But that's not actual practice, AFAICS... rpms for the daemons like
bind and apache do chkconfig themselves 'on' in %post. So for daemons
that are popular and ship with a safe default config, Fedora does seem
to enable them.

cheers,



m
--
martin.langhoff@gmail.com
martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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