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Old 08-18-2008, 02:52 PM
"Ahmed Kamal"
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

Hi,
Sorry this might be a bit off topic. I am getting a new laptop, and plan to use fedora as my main OS. I will be installing Windows too for the occasional game. I would also like to install open-solaris and/or MacOSX, just to see what others are up to. Eventually I will also want to run multiple VMs. It would be necessary to share data across those OSs and VMs. I am lost as to how to partition/lvm the 250GB drive for optimal use. Does anyone have a similar setup? any advice ?


Would KVM on F10 allow running the non-virtualized (i.e. on disk installed) Windows and Solaris to run in full virt mode ? (That should save space)

Regards

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Old 08-18-2008, 10:25 PM
Lyos Gemini Norezel
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

Ahmed Kamal wrote:

Hi,
Sorry this might be a bit off topic. I am getting a new laptop, and
plan to use fedora as my main OS. I will be installing Windows too for
the occasional game. I would also like to install open-solaris and/or
MacOSX, just to see what others are up to. Eventually I will also want
to run multiple VMs. It would be necessary to share data across those
OSs and VMs. I am lost as to how to partition/lvm the 250GB drive for
optimal use. Does anyone have a similar setup? any advice ?

I would partition it as follows:

5x 20GB partitions for Operating Systems
1.) Fedora (to be sub-partitioned into swap, boot, etc.
2.) OSX
3.) OpenSolaris
4.) Windows
5.) others?

Then a 100GB Data partition to be shared across all OSes.
The last 50GB, I would use for compressed VM images.
I'd do it in that order as well... simply because, on the chance you
decide to forgo/delete the OSX and/or OpenSolaris partitions... you can
easily extend the fedora partition into that space without having to
repartition. The 100GB data partition gives more than enough space in
which to share all needed data between Operating Systems and I'd suggest
using Fat32 simply because it's recognizable/mountable/readable on all
the above mentioned OSes. You can easily forgo the 50GB VM image
partition and go with a 150GB combined data/VM image partition.





Would KVM on F10 allow running the non-virtualized (i.e. on disk
installed) Windows and Solaris to run in full virt mode ? (That should
save space)


Regards



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Old 08-18-2008, 10:59 PM
"Dennis J."
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

Ahmed Kamal wrote:

Hi,
Sorry this might be a bit off topic. I am getting a new laptop, and plan
to use fedora as my main OS. I will be installing Windows too for the
occasional game. I would also like to install open-solaris and/or
MacOSX, just to see what others are up to. Eventually I will also want
to run multiple VMs. It would be necessary to share data across those
OSs and VMs. I am lost as to how to partition/lvm the 250GB drive for
optimal use. Does anyone have a similar setup? any advice ?

Would KVM on F10 allow running the non-virtualized (i.e. on disk
installed) Windows and Solaris to run in full virt mode ? (That should
save space)


I don't know about Solaris but this works well for WindowsXP. You just have
to create a separate hardware profile for the virtual version of XP so
Windows doesn't get confused because of the changing hardware.


Regards,
Dennis

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Old 08-19-2008, 04:17 AM
Ding-Yi Chen
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

於 一,2008-08-18 於 18:25 -0400,Lyos Gemini Norezel 提到:
> Ahmed Kamal wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Sorry this might be a bit off topic. I am getting a new laptop, and
> > plan to use fedora as my main OS. I will be installing Windows too for
> > the occasional game. I would also like to install open-solaris and/or
> > MacOSX, just to see what others are up to. Eventually I will also want
> > to run multiple VMs. It would be necessary to share data across those
> > OSs and VMs. I am lost as to how to partition/lvm the 250GB drive for
> > optimal use. Does anyone have a similar setup? any advice ?
> I would partition it as follows:
>
> 5x 20GB partitions for Operating Systems
> 1.) Fedora (to be sub-partitioned into swap, boot, etc.
> 2.) OSX
> 3.) OpenSolaris
> 4.) Windows
> 5.) others?
>
> Then a 100GB Data partition to be shared across all OSes.
> The last 50GB, I would use for compressed VM images.
> I'd do it in that order as well... simply because, on the chance you
> decide to forgo/delete the OSX and/or OpenSolaris partitions... you can
> easily extend the fedora partition into that space without having to
> repartition. The 100GB data partition gives more than enough space in
> which to share all needed data between Operating Systems and I'd suggest
> using Fat32 simply because it's recognizable/mountable/readable on all
> the above mentioned OSes. You can easily forgo the 50GB VM image
> partition and go with a 150GB combined data/VM image partition.
>

I don't really think you can install 4 or more OSs on a harddrive.
A harddisk can have either 4 primary partitions or 3 primarys and 1
extended. I suppose the most stable configuration you might get is one
primary for each OS, while extended stores data as Windows can only use
its own primary and the extended.


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Old 08-19-2008, 05:07 AM
Felix Miata
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

On 2008/08/19 14:17 (GMT+1000) Ding-Yi Chen apparently typed:

> I don't really think you can install 4 or more OSs on a harddrive.

http://fm.no-ip.com/tmp/libata-gt15partitions.txt shows considerably more are
possible even using libata. It has 12 installed, plus, not counting the
extended itself, 7 partitions that have no installed operating systems.

> A harddisk can have either 4 primary partitions or 3 primarys and 1
> extended. I suppose the most stable configuration you might get is one
> primary for each OS,

Stable? What does that mean? Modern operating systems, once booted, make no
distinction between primaries and non-primaries - all are treated equally as
logical, as any partition at all is nothing more than an artificial (logical)
division of a physical device.
--
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:15 AM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 05:52:33PM +0300, Ahmed Kamal wrote:
> Sorry this might be a bit off topic. I am getting a new laptop, and plan to
> use fedora as my main OS. I will be installing Windows too for the
> occasional game. I would also like to install open-solaris and/or MacOSX,
> just to see what others are up to. Eventually I will also want to run
> multiple VMs. It would be necessary to share data across those OSs and VMs.
> I am lost as to how to partition/lvm the 250GB drive for optimal use. Does
> anyone have a similar setup? any advice ?

This is how I arranged a similar machine where I wanted to multi-boot
into Windows and several other OSes:

/dev/sda1 Windows
/dev/sda2 Shared /boot partition (give it 1 or 2 GB)
/dev/sda3 LVM PV & single volume group /dev/VolGroup
within /dev/VolGroup:
/dev/VolGroup/F10 For Fedora 10/Rawhide
/dev/VolGroup/F9 For Fedora 9
/dev/VolGroup/F8 For Fedora 8
/dev/VolGroup/Debian For Debian
/dev/VolGroup/Shared Shared space (mounted on all OSes)
/dev/VolGroup/Swap Shared swap (used by all OSes)

The reasoning behind this was that Windows needs its own primary
partition. /boot also needs to be on a primary partition because of a
well-known limitation with GRUB. Everything else was going to run
under Linux so I just have separate LV for each operating system's
root. Then /dev/VolGroup/Shared is mounted as /mnt/shared on each OS
so I have a space to share data. I have separate /home directories,
but conceivably you could share these between OSes.

/boot is shared. When you install a new OS it will "helpfully" trash
the GRUB configuration in /boot/grub/grub.conf, so before you install,
take a copy, then afterwards restore the copy and add a new boot
section for the new OS. However new OS installs should leave the rest
of /boot untouched *provided* you don't tell them it's OK for them to
format the /boot partition (don't do that!)

Remember that OpenSolaris won't know what to do with LVM. It will
need a primary partition, unless you're going to run it only
virtualized under a Linux host, in which case you can use LVM for its
virtual disks. Primary partitions are a pain because changing the
size or rearranging them is next to impossible. LVM is far more
flexible.

No idea about Mac OS X. I assume you'd be running the hacked version
of OS X (if your hardware isn't a Mac).

> Would KVM on F10 allow running the non-virtualized (i.e. on disk installed)
> Windows and Solaris to run in full virt mode ?

Yes. With the configuration above you have a lot of flexibility - you
can both multi-boot and run OSes virtualized from the same LVs.
However you will need to hack /etc/fstab, because disk names will
appear different when running on baremetal versus virtualized. Also
you can't share /dev/VolGroup/Swap between running OSes (!)

I wouldn't recommend running Windows virtualized under KVM. There's
lots of random breakage, and even if you do get it working, it'll be
really slow.

Rich.

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Old 08-19-2008, 09:49 AM
"Ahmed Kamal"
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

I wouldn't recommend running Windows virtualized under KVM. *There's

lots of random breakage, and even if you do get it working, it'll be

really slow.

Too bad eh, my understanding is that Xen dom0 was totally dropped off F10, and redhat is pushing KVM full steam. Why is KVM still much slower than Xen, and do you see that as improving soon ? I was planning on standardizing on KVM for all my virtulaization needs, but now I'm disappointed! Would you see VMware server (or vbox) as a better choice ?



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Old 08-19-2008, 09:59 AM
"Daniel P. Berrange"
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 12:49:53PM +0300, Ahmed Kamal wrote:
> >
> > I wouldn't recommend running Windows virtualized under KVM. There's
> > lots of random breakage, and even if you do get it working, it'll be
> > really slow.
>
> Too bad eh, my understanding is that Xen dom0 was totally dropped off F10,
> and redhat is pushing KVM full steam. Why is KVM still much slower than Xen,
> and do you see that as improving soon ? I was planning on standardizing on
> KVM for all my virtulaization needs, but now I'm disappointed! Would you see
> VMware server (or vbox) as a better choice ?

NB, there are paravirtualized drivers for Windows on KVM available that
will make I/O fast. Any OS is slow without paravirt drivers, no matter
what virt technology you use. KVM is the future for Linux virtualization
and Fedora. As of F10 host we will automatically enable paravirt drivers
for KVM guests running F9 or later. This should give network IO performance
on a par with Xen, if not better

Xen Dom0 was temporarily dropped due to not having a viable kernel to ship.
Upstream Xen community is porting Xen dom0 to paravirt_ops, and when this
is completed & merged into upstream kernels, Xen dom0 can be re-enabled in
Fedora.

In terms of stability of KVM, as with all apps Fedora aggressively tracks
the upstream releases. KVM is evolving very fast & has very frequent
releases, so we can be unlucky and get an unstable release but I know
many people are successfully using KVM for all their virtualization needs.

Daniel
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:09 AM
Ralf Ertzinger
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

Hi.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:59:57 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:

> NB, there are paravirtualized drivers for Windows on KVM available
> that will make I/O fast. Any OS is slow without paravirt drivers, no
> matter what virt technology you use.

Paravirtualized means: KVM without processor support or with?

I.e., is the plan to make KVM not suck on machines that do not have
Vanderpool/Pacifica, or are those simply out of luck with xen gone?

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Old 08-19-2008, 10:10 AM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default disk partitioning for multiOS machine

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 12:49:53PM +0300, Ahmed Kamal wrote:
> > I wouldn't recommend running Windows virtualized under KVM. There's
> > lots of random breakage, and even if you do get it working, it'll be
> > really slow.
>
> Too bad eh, my understanding is that Xen dom0 was totally dropped off F10,
> and redhat is pushing KVM full steam.

That's not entirely true. You should look at this page to see what's
going on:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0

> Why is KVM still much slower than Xen,
> and do you see that as improving soon ? I was planning on standardizing on
> KVM for all my virtulaization needs, but now I'm disappointed! Would you see
> VMware server (or vbox) as a better choice ?

KVM isn't much slower than Xen. _Windows_ under KVM is slow if you
run it fully virtualized without any paravirt network or disk drivers
(same is also true for Windows under Xen). You could try running
Windows with these experimental virtio drivers though which might
resolve this problem:

http://www.linux-kvm.com/content/tip-how-setup-windows-guest-paravirtual-network-drivers
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=180599

(Unfortunately only a network driver seems to be available and no one
seems to be about to release any virtio disk driver for Windows).

The real problem, as ever, is Windows being closed source and not
supporting community-developed open standards such as virtio or any
one of a million other standards I could mention.

Rich.

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powerful monitoring features, net stats, disk stats, logging, etc.
http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-top

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