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Old 07-29-2008, 07:01 AM
"Martin Langhoff"
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

The OLPC School Server image is a "cli" spin for a server role, and it
is based on F7. Right now the install CDs are created using
livecd-tools, mostly due to hysterical raisins. An old-style text
installer would suit me -- and the task -- a lot better.

What I am looking for then is to be able to build an install ISO that

- fits on CD-sized media (but then, I only have a small set of packages)
- has a text installer that ideally works well on low-end hw, and supports
serial console for headless machines
- has better support for off-the-beaten path arches
- the same CD can be used for installs and upgrades
- the kickstart environment is closer to the env you get when customising
a RH build
- is resilient and produces consistent builds
- extra points if it can build F7 installers from F9 :-)

Looking around, pungi seems to be the right tool for this, but some of
the documentation options are confusing, and it doesn't seem to like
the F7 repos I've thrown at it in my early lukewarm attempts. I am
happy to debug things through (and join the fedora-buildsys-list), but
I would really appreciate some hints as to whether I'm on the right
path, or perhaps I should be using something else.

cheers,



martin
--
martin.langhoff@gmail.com
martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Old 07-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 19:01 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> Looking around, pungi seems to be the right tool for this, but some of
> the documentation options are confusing, and it doesn't seem to like
> the F7 repos I've thrown at it in my early lukewarm attempts. I am
> happy to debug things through (and join the fedora-buildsys-list), but
> I would really appreciate some hints as to whether I'm on the right
> path, or perhaps I should be using something else.

Pungi is mostly meant to run for the release it exists on. So if you
wanted to compose F7 releases, you need to run the F7 pungi on F7. This
is due to a number of reasons, mostly the APIs of the tools it uses as
well as the kernel version that will be booted, etc...

F7's pungi was really a first attempt and I don't think it was that
good. Rawhide's pungi is far better, but in some of the problems I
discovered along the way we've fixed in other pieces of software like
yum and anaconda.

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:06 PM
"Martin Langhoff"
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

2008/7/30 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
> Pungi is mostly meant to run for the release it exists on. So if you
> wanted to compose F7 releases, you need to run the F7 pungi on F7. This
> is due to a number of reasons, mostly the APIs of the tools it uses as
> well as the kernel version that will be booted, etc...

Ok. I don't particularly like the idea, but I can live with that if it
can run inside mock.

> F7's pungi was really a first attempt and I don't think it was that
> good. Rawhide's pungi is far better, but in some of the problems I
> discovered along the way we've fixed in other pieces of software like
> yum and anaconda.

Does F7's pungi build a good F7 distro installer? What did RH/Fedora
use to build F1~F6? The RH/Fedora team has been building installer CDs
for a long time... I am sure you guys have some well-worn tools for
that :-) maybe I should be using something old and time-tested? I
don't mind it being written in ksh...

In any case, I am most interested in understanding whether it is
designed to do what I am trying to do. If I fix/workaround its
limitations, is it the right tool to build installer CDs that... ?

- fit on CD-sized media (but then, I only have a small set of packages)
- have a text installer that ideally works well on low-end hw, and supports
serial console for headless machines
- have good support for off-the-beaten path arches
- can be used for installs and upgrades
- the kickstart environment - during install! - is close to the env you
get when customising a RH build
- are resilient and produces consistent builds

Are there other good alternatives I should be considering?

So far I have been working with livecd-tools, which is designed to do
something else. I want to switch to the right tool.

cheers,



m
--
martin.langhoff@gmail.com
martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Old 07-29-2008, 09:30 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 09:06 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> Ok. I don't particularly like the idea, but I can live with that if it
> can run inside mock.

Yes, it can be ran in mock.

>
> > F7's pungi was really a first attempt and I don't think it was that
> > good. Rawhide's pungi is far better, but in some of the problems I
> > discovered along the way we've fixed in other pieces of software like
> > yum and anaconda.
>
> Does F7's pungi build a good F7 distro installer?

Well, it built F7, so you tell me (:

> What did RH/Fedora
> use to build F1~F6?

Some ungodly complicated tool sets that sat above anaconda-runtime's
buildinstall and pkgorder and splittree

> The RH/Fedora team has been building installer CDs
> for a long time... I am sure you guys have some well-worn tools for
> that :-) maybe I should be using something old and time-tested? I
> don't mind it being written in ksh...

A) it's not really opensource, B) it's directly tied to the buildsystem,
and C) it won't really work without kerberos setup, D) did I mention
it's ungodly complicated?

>
> In any case, I am most interested in understanding whether it is
> designed to do what I am trying to do. If I fix/workaround its
> limitations, is it the right tool to build installer CDs that... ?

Yes. You could use buildinstall directly to prepare the directory tree
for installability, and then call mkisofs yourself, but pungi helps you
with the preparation steps.

>
> - fit on CD-sized media (but then, I only have a small set of packages)

Yes

> - have a text installer that ideally works well on low-end hw, and supports
> serial console for headless machines

You get that for free with anaconda

> - have good support for off-the-beaten path arches

How off the beaten path? I've used it for x86 and ppc, I've seen it
used for ia64, sparc, and I think I've got patches somewhere for s390.
Basically anything anaconda can support, pungi can easily be made to
support. The only tricky parts is finding said arch to run on, and
getting the mkisofs calls right to make the isos bootable.

> - can be used for installs and upgrades

You get that for free with anaconda

> - the kickstart environment - during install! - is close to the env you
> get when customising a RH build

Again, anaconda

> - are resilient and produces consistent builds

Provided you don't change out the repos you point pungi at, you'll get
the same thing over and over again.

>
> Are there other good alternatives I should be considering?

There is reviser, not sure if it landed in F7 timeframe. It puts a gui
on top of things, has some of it's own code for the things that pungi
does, although it does use bits and parts of pungi.

>
> So far I have been working with livecd-tools, which is designed to do
> something else. I want to switch to the right tool.
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
--
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:41 PM
Manuel Wolfshant
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

On 07/30/2008 12:30 AM, Jesse Keating wrote:



Are there other good alternatives I should be considering?



There is reviser, not sure if it landed in F7 timeframe. It puts a gui
on top of things, has some of it's own code for the things that pungi
does, although it does use bits and parts of pungi.


s/reviser/revisor/
http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/
http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/news-releases/article-create-a-fedora-7-cd-in-3-easy-steps

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Old 07-29-2008, 09:47 PM
"Martin Langhoff"
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

2008/7/30 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
> Yes, it can be ran in mock.

Fantastic.

>> Does F7's pungi build a good F7 distro installer?
> Well, it built F7, so you tell me (:

Thanks for the confirmation - for a moment I wasn't sure ;-)

> D) did I mention
> it's ungodly complicated?

Ok, I get it -

>> In any case, I am most interested in understanding whether it is
>> designed to do what I am trying to do. If I fix/workaround its
>> limitations, is it the right tool to build installer CDs that... ?
>
> Yes. You could use buildinstall directly to prepare the directory tree
> for installability, and then call mkisofs yourself, but pungi helps you
> with the preparation steps.

Great. That is the key answer.

>> - have good support for off-the-beaten path arches
>
> How off the beaten path? I've used it for x86 and ppc,

ARM? Assuming the rest if F9 supports it, of course...

I guess my remaining questions are "if I use it on F7, what should I
worry about?", plus some specific errors I am seeing, but I'm happy to
take that to the buildtools list.



m
--
martin.langhoff@gmail.com
martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

--
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:06 PM
jeff
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

Jesse Keating wrote:

On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 09:06 +1200, Martin Langhoff wrote:

Ok. I don't particularly like the idea, but I can live with that if it
can run inside mock.


Yes, it can be ran in mock.


Along these lines:

mock -r fedora-7 --chroot "/usr/bin/pungi --force --discs=1 --nosplitmedia
--bugurl=http://foo.org --name=bar --ver=1.0 --flavor=chocolate --nosource -c
ks-boo.cfg"


-Jeff

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Old 07-29-2008, 10:32 PM
"Martin Langhoff"
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Manuel Wolfshant
<wolfy@nobugconsulting.ro> wrote:
> On 07/30/2008 12:30 AM, Jesse Keating wrote:
>> There is reviser, not sure if it landed in F7 timeframe. It puts a gui
>> on top of things, has some of it's own code for the things that pungi
>> does, although it does use bits and parts of pungi.
>>
>
> s/reviser/revisor/

I've looked at revisor on F9 but it seems to be geared to build a
livecd. Or can it build regular installer ISOs?

cheers,



m
--
martin.langhoff@gmail.com
martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 
Old 07-29-2008, 10:41 PM
Manuel Wolfshant
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

On 07/30/2008 01:32 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote:

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Manuel Wolfshant
<wolfy@nobugconsulting.ro> wrote:


On 07/30/2008 12:30 AM, Jesse Keating wrote:


There is reviser, not sure if it landed in F7 timeframe. It puts a gui
on top of things, has some of it's own code for the things that pungi
does, although it does use bits and parts of pungi.



s/reviser/revisor/



I've looked at revisor on F9 but it seems to be geared to build a
livecd. Or can it build regular installer ISOs?


The first sentence on their website says " Revisor enables you to
customize and compose your own Fedora based installation and live
media." The last "and" from this phrase, together with the
explanations found later in the page, make me pretty sure that it can
create regular installer ISOs as well.


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Old 07-29-2008, 10:49 PM
"Keith G. Robertson-Turner"
 
Default Pungi as CD installer build tool

Verily I say unto thee, that Martin Langhoff spake thusly:

> So far I have been working with livecd-tools, which is designed to do
> something else. I want to switch to the right tool.

This looks interesting:

http://www.t2-project.org

--
Regards,
Keith G. Robertson-Turner

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