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Old 07-11-2008, 02:40 PM
Jeroen van Meeuwen
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

Spin Maintainers, may I please have your attention.

To be included in the Fedora 10 release cycle, you'll need a Feature
page in category ProposedFeature (and change that to the
ProposedFeatureF10 category when you feel the Spin Concept is ready for
actual inclusion). This page should be ready (eg. prepared) before the
Alpha freeze.


The Feature Page for that spin should have a short description of the
spin concept, it's target audience, any notes you want to write down on
why it is you do foo or bar. It should also contain a link to the
kickstart, but since a mailing list is still pending, I suggest you
email it to fedora-livecd-list@redhat.com. The Spin SIG picks it up,
does a technical review, and sends you the OK or comments. If the Spin
SIG approves, your kickstart will be added to the GIT repository for the
appropriate branch(es). At this point, it'll be forced to use
"generic-logos", still. The Spin SIG will work with you to fit in the
kickstart into the pool, get some things right or more right, and while
you -by then at least-, should also have commit "access to the GIT
repository"[1], the spin concept will continue it's path to the Board
for trademark approval. Make sure that before this happens, you have
some kind of strong argument in favor of the spin so they just can't say
no. It makes all our lives easier ;-) Once you're kickstart (spin
concept) has the almighty Board trademark approval stamp, we change
"generic-logos" back to "fedora-logos".


The kickstart should be built upon fedora-live-base.ks in the
spin-kickstarts repository at:

http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git

This GIT repository has several branches: master, and a very distinctive
branch for each live release of Fedora out there. Naturally, the master
branch is where development goes against rawhide, and the release
specific branches is where you have a chance to maintain your spin
concept for the duration of the lifecycle of that release.

Basing on fedora-live-base.ks may be deferred from such as with the
Electronic Lab DVD spin: it bases itself on the KDE CD spin so that
minimal overhead in duplicate configuration and scripts is accomplished.
You may do the same; as long as you make sure you tell us in your
Feature page or technical review request. And if you don't tell us in
your Feature page, I'll read it from the kickstart anyway.


For now, you are requested to start filling out your spin's Feature
page, get them to the Spin SIG (members are on [2]), request access to
the gitspin-kickstarts group[1] in FAS, and start composing every two
weeks or so, to verify rawhide hasn't changed too much.


To watch commits to the spin-kickstarts GIT repository, subscribe to the
spin-kickstarts-commits list[3]


I'd love to see you all come back to me in the next week or so ;-)

Thanks in advance,

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip

[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/view/gitspin-kickstarts

[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Spins (members, guidelines, DOs
and DONTs)


[3] https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/spin-kickstarts-commits

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Old 07-11-2008, 03:13 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:

> Spin Maintainers, may I please have your attention.
>
> To be included in the Fedora 10 release cycle, you'll need a Feature
> page in category ProposedFeature (and change that to the
> ProposedFeatureF10 category when you feel the Spin Concept is ready for
> actual inclusion). This page should be ready (eg. prepared) before the
> Alpha freeze.

All or just new spins (ie, where to Desktop, KDE, and other existing ones
fall)?

-- Rex

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Old 07-11-2008, 05:18 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

Rex Dieter (rdieter@math.unl.edu) said:
> Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>
> > Spin Maintainers, may I please have your attention.
> >
> > To be included in the Fedora 10 release cycle, you'll need a Feature
> > page in category ProposedFeature (and change that to the
> > ProposedFeatureF10 category when you feel the Spin Concept is ready for
> > actual inclusion). This page should be ready (eg. prepared) before the
> > Alpha freeze.
>
> All or just new spins (ie, where to Desktop, KDE, and other existing ones
> fall)?

>From talking to people, this is 'all spins which are not part of the
'normal' set (i.e., Fedora install set, Desktop live, KDE live.)

Bill

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Old 07-11-2008, 07:56 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

Bill Nottingham wrote:
Rex Dieter (rdieter@math.unl.edu) said:

Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:


Spin Maintainers, may I please have your attention.

To be included in the Fedora 10 release cycle, you'll need a Feature
page in category ProposedFeature (and change that to the
ProposedFeatureF10 category when you feel the Spin Concept is ready for
actual inclusion). This page should be ready (eg. prepared) before the
Alpha freeze.

All or just new spins (ie, where to Desktop, KDE, and other existing ones
fall)?



From talking to people, this is 'all spins which are not part of the

'normal' set (i.e., Fedora install set, Desktop live, KDE live.)


Should I submit feature pages for games and xfce spin and does it have
to be done for each release? I am not sure I understand the purpose.


Rahul

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Old 07-11-2008, 08:01 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 01:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>
> Should I submit feature pages for games and xfce spin and does it have
> to be done for each release? I am not sure I understand the purpose.

The spins we do for each release can change, thus they are features.
All the other benefits of the feature process apply to spins too, even
if we re-do them each release.

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:05 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

Jesse Keating wrote:

On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 01:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Should I submit feature pages for games and xfce spin and does it have
to be done for each release? I am not sure I understand the purpose.


The spins we do for each release can change, thus they are features.
All the other benefits of the feature process apply to spins too, even
if we re-do them each release.


I don't think spins should require Fedora Board approval every release.
It should be a one time thing. Technical review can be done by the spin
SIG. Didn't FESCo explicitly vote that spins are not features? I didn't
see them reverse that decision. Besides what makes "desktop" and KDE
variants not spins?


Rahul

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Old 07-11-2008, 08:15 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 01:35 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> I don't think spins should require Fedora Board approval every release.
> It should be a one time thing. Technical review can be done by the spin
> SIG.

That's correct, those two are a one-time shot, though subject to
re-review. Neither of those are part of the Feature process.

> Didn't FESCo explicitly vote that spins are not features? I didn't
> see them reverse that decision. Besides what makes "desktop" and KDE
> variants not spins?

FESCo may have at one time, however it was ill advised. Releng and the
SPINS sig want them to be features, and I'll use my powers in FESCo now
and the board as well if necessary to push that agenda.

Desktop and KDE are not "spins" because they are produced and qa'd as
part of the rest of the distribution like the Fedora spin. They are in
essence the non-contrib part. The board or FESCo could at some point
change what we produce as those images, in which case Desktop or KDE
would revert to a "spin" and thus go through that process and the
Feature process.

Features help us determine what is expected to work for a release, which
drives many things like QA plans, schedules, marketing, etc... Knowing
what spins to expect is very very important. There isn't always going
to be somebody to pick up the slack if a spin owner moves on, we don't
want to be creating these things in perpetuity if the owner isn't
around, testing it, fixing it, etc...

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:23 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

2008/7/11 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
> The spins we do for each release can change, thus they are features.
> All the other benefits of the feature process apply to spins too, even
> if we re-do them each release.

Unless rel-eng wants to deem specific spins as permanent spins. That
wasn't part of the baseline proposal I put forward for consensus
approval but suggestions on how to do a the permanent designation was
in the amendent.

-jef

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Old 07-11-2008, 08:44 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 12:23 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> 2008/7/11 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
> > The spins we do for each release can change, thus they are features.
> > All the other benefits of the feature process apply to spins too, even
> > if we re-do them each release.
>
> Unless rel-eng wants to deem specific spins as permanent spins. That
> wasn't part of the baseline proposal I put forward for consensus
> approval but suggestions on how to do a the permanent designation was
> in the amendent.

We (rel-eng) haven't designated any of the additional spins officially
yet.

josh

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Old 07-11-2008, 08:49 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Attention Spin Maintainers

Jesse Keating wrote:

On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 01:35 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
I don't think spins should require Fedora Board approval every release.
It should be a one time thing. Technical review can be done by the spin
SIG.


That's correct, those two are a one-time shot, though subject to
re-review. Neither of those are part of the Feature process.


I was somewhat confused by the original announcement mentioning board
approval.



FESCo may have at one time, however it was ill advised. Releng and the
SPINS sig want them to be features, and I'll use my powers in FESCo now
and the board as well if necessary to push that agenda.


I actually disagree with FESCo and agree with you as a spin SIG member
but if FESCo makes a decision, it should be the same group reversing it
instead of any of us arbitrarily deciding otherwise. There is no point
in FESCo making such decisions otherwise.



Desktop and KDE are not "spins" because they are produced and qa'd as
part of the rest of the distribution like the Fedora spin.


This seems to be a redefinition of a spin since KDE clearly was defined
as a spin when it was proposed initially. Is the differentiation between
a official and custom spin at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CustomSpins
still valid?



Features help us determine what is expected to work for a release, which
drives many things like QA plans, schedules, marketing, etc... Knowing
what spins to expect is very very important. There isn't always going
to be somebody to pick up the slack if a spin owner moves on, we don't
want to be creating these things in perpetuity if the owner isn't
around, testing it, fixing it, etc...


Agreed but it seems creating and maintaining spins have become more
complicated over a period of time despite the composing tools being very
easy and gaining functionality over time. One has to go through multiple
groups involved including spin sig, FESCo and Fedora Board. It's been
quite sometime since Fedora 9 got released and the spins are still going
to be composed excluding all the many updates including critical
security issues. The ks files I had originally tested and verified seems
different from what is in the spin sig repo now. Probably because I
don't understand git very well. We have been discussing the process
forever and spin maintainers still don't have access to compose the
spins. I think we need improvements in the current process for this to
work at all for the sake of both the spin maintainers and others
involved currently.


Rahul

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