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Old 07-09-2008, 01:42 PM
Daniel Drake
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

Hi,

I'm working on OS-level issues at OLPC. I saw Greg Dekoenigsberg's mail
about Fedora/OLPC collaboration (thanks Greg!) and have another point to
raise:

We're currently working on upgrading from F7 to F9 for our next major
software release. One of the challenges here is that by upgrading, over
100 packages were added to the build as dependencies of packages we were
already including.

Examples: totem-gstreamer now depends on gvfs which pulls in samba.
HAL now pulls in smbios-utils (entirely Dell-specific hence not relevant
here)
perl and associated packages are now pulled in by mtd-utils, ntp,
gstreamer-plugins-base and libbonobo
libgnome now depends on fedora-gnome-theme which pulls in a lot more
theme stuff
...

´╗┐The XO has just 1GB flash so we need to keep the size of our build
down.

I guess some of these extra dependency chains are hard to predict/avoid
but it would be good to raise awareness here. It would also be great if
people could help us slim our F9 builds back to acceptable sizes, since
we are nearing release-candidate phase.

Some related links:
http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7353
http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/update.1-joyride.html - the top section
shows all the packages added in joyride (F9) over update1 (F7)
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Distro_Version_Migration_Nastiness (we're
forking some packages into the OLPC-3 disttag which have slimmed down
dependencies, but obviously forking is not a great option)
http://ausil.us/blog/olpc-fedora.html

Thanks,
Daniel


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Old 07-09-2008, 01:46 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

Daniel Drake wrote:

I guess some of these extra dependency chains are hard to predict/avoid
but it would be good to raise awareness here. It would also be great if
people could help us slim our F9 builds back to acceptable sizes, since
we are nearing release-candidate phase.


If you have ideas on how they can split (along with any patches) they
should be filed under Red Hat bugzilla with a tracker bug to keep track
of them all. There are several other cases where more granular
dependencies are a big help. Thanks for bringing this up.


Rahul

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Old 07-09-2008, 02:07 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 09:42 -0400, Daniel Drake wrote:

> I guess some of these extra dependency chains are hard to predict/avoid
> but it would be good to raise awareness here. It would also be great if
> people could help us slim our F9 builds back to acceptable sizes, since
> we are nearing release-candidate phase.

>From what I recall, we (or rather the olpc team) did quite a bit of
dependency pruning back in the F7 timeframe to get the olpc image as
small as it it. Realistically, you'll have to keep fighting this by
filing bugs and pointing out package split candidates, since these deps
have the tendency to grow back.

Matthias

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Old 07-09-2008, 02:43 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

Matthias Clasen wrote:

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 09:42 -0400, Daniel Drake wrote:


I guess some of these extra dependency chains are hard to predict/avoid
but it would be good to raise awareness here. It would also be great if
people could help us slim our F9 builds back to acceptable sizes, since
we are nearing release-candidate phase.



From what I recall, we (or rather the olpc team) did quite a bit of

dependency pruning back in the F7 timeframe to get the olpc image as
small as it it. Realistically, you'll have to keep fighting this by
filing bugs and pointing out package split candidates, since these deps
have the tendency to grow back.


Right. Live CD's tend to keep things somewhat in check but this is a
ongoing process and constant struggle.


Rahul

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Old 07-09-2008, 02:57 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

Daniel,

we are looking at splitting gvfs a bit more finegrained for F10, but
doing such a split in the middle of a stable release is somewhat hard to
do, so some forking may be necessary for F9.

But if we work through these issues now, your F11 upgrade may be a lot
easier...




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Old 07-09-2008, 03:05 PM
Dennis Gilmore
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

On Wednesday 09 July 2008, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> Daniel,
>
> we are looking at splitting gvfs a bit more finegrained for F10, but
> doing such a split in the middle of a stable release is somewhat hard to
> do, so some forking may be necessary for F9.
>
> But if we work through these issues now, your F11 upgrade may be a lot
> easier...
Ive been taking steps so that OLPC will be able to track rawhide always.
this should help make it easier to keep track of image bloat. hopefully there
will be a F10 based build

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Old 07-09-2008, 03:10 PM
"Daniel P. Berrange"
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 10:05:05AM -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
> On Wednesday 09 July 2008, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > Daniel,
> >
> > we are looking at splitting gvfs a bit more finegrained for F10, but
> > doing such a split in the middle of a stable release is somewhat hard to
> > do, so some forking may be necessary for F9.
> >
> > But if we work through these issues now, your F11 upgrade may be a lot
> > easier...
> Ive been taking steps so that OLPC will be able to track rawhide always.
> this should help make it easier to keep track of image bloat. hopefully there
> will be a F10 based build

We could sure use some scripts to anaylse RPM deps on a nightly basis
and produces reports on interesting stats. eg disk footprint of the
chain starting from package 'X', or list of dependancies from package
'X', or perhaps something that given a kickstart file can report
the total size of the package set listed in the kickstart without
actually going through the full livecd (or equiv) build process. We
are fighting a similar battle to OLPC with the oVirt project which
has a live CD we're trying to keep under 64 MB in size.

Dainel
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:44 PM
seth vidal
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 16:10 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> We could sure use some scripts to anaylse RPM deps on a nightly basis
> and produces reports on interesting stats. eg disk footprint of the
> chain starting from package 'X', or list of dependancies from package
> 'X', or perhaps something that given a kickstart file can report
> the total size of the package set listed in the kickstart without
> actually going through the full livecd (or equiv) build process. We
> are fighting a similar battle to OLPC with the oVirt project which
> has a live CD we're trying to keep under 64 MB in size.

Taking a list of pkgs, resolving out all of their deps then calculating
installed size (not calculating vs an existing install, but raw
installed size) shouldn't take too much code at all. I'll see what I can
hack up today.

It won't take into account overlaid files (like docs and manpages, nor
multilib binaries) but it should give you a pretty good upper range
(sort of).


-sv


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Old 07-09-2008, 04:03 PM
"Daniel P. Berrange"
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 11:44:23AM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 16:10 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> > We could sure use some scripts to anaylse RPM deps on a nightly basis
> > and produces reports on interesting stats. eg disk footprint of the
> > chain starting from package 'X', or list of dependancies from package
> > 'X', or perhaps something that given a kickstart file can report
> > the total size of the package set listed in the kickstart without
> > actually going through the full livecd (or equiv) build process. We
> > are fighting a similar battle to OLPC with the oVirt project which
> > has a live CD we're trying to keep under 64 MB in size.
>
> Taking a list of pkgs, resolving out all of their deps then calculating
> installed size (not calculating vs an existing install, but raw
> installed size) shouldn't take too much code at all. I'll see what I can
> hack up today.

Extra points if you round up the sizes to 4k to take account of the
typical ext3 blocksize which adds extra storage overhead for small
files. Rolling nigh-to-night, or week-to-week diffs of size growth
or shrinkage would be fun too

Daniel
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Old 07-09-2008, 04:29 PM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default OLPC & package dependency growth

On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 09:42:35AM -0400, Daniel Drake wrote:
> I guess some of these extra dependency chains are hard to predict/avoid
> but it would be good to raise awareness here. It would also be great if
> people could help us slim our F9 builds back to acceptable sizes, since
> we are nearing release-candidate phase.

oVirt folk also have the same problem.

Rich.

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