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-   -   kernel module options for cpufreq (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-development/114889-kernel-module-options-cpufreq.html)

drago01 06-27-2008 08:56 PM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 21:16 +0200, drago01 wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > You really don't want to be using
>> > USERSPACE at all.
>>
>> seems like cpufreq-applet uses it....
>
> Sure, it shouldn't. If you're using userspace for thermal or latency
> reasons, then a setuid applet is totally the wrong way to achieve both
> of these :-)

its not a setuid applet .. something seems to allow non root to do
this (hal? consolekit? pam? udev? .. dunno)

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Bastien Nocera 06-27-2008 10:47 PM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 22:56 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 21:16 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> >> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > You really don't want to be using
> >> > USERSPACE at all.
> >>
> >> seems like cpufreq-applet uses it....
> >
> > Sure, it shouldn't. If you're using userspace for thermal or latency
> > reasons, then a setuid applet is totally the wrong way to achieve both
> > of these :-)
>
> its not a setuid applet .. something seems to allow non root to do
> this (hal? consolekit? pam? udev? .. dunno)

It currently uses consolehelper to get root. IMO, it shouldn't allow
setting frequencies at all.

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Dave Jones 06-27-2008 11:31 PM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 09:01:34PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 21:16 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > You really don't want to be using
> > > USERSPACE at all.
> >
> > seems like cpufreq-applet uses it....
>
> Sure, it shouldn't. If you're using userspace for thermal or latency
> reasons, then a setuid applet is totally the wrong way to achieve both
> of these :-)
>
> Maybe we can just use these as loadable modules (i.e. not built default)
> rather than built-in and loaded by default.
>
> DaveJ, do these suggestions seem acceptable?

Having the userspace governor built-in means absolutely nothing in terms of
overhead, until something in userspace actually uses it.

When the cpuspeed init script starts up, the first thing it does is
check if the CPU is on the whitelist for using ondemand, and if so, it
starts up ondemand. Not a single line of the userspace governor code
gets run in this case.

The only time the above isn't true is when the CPU isn't on that whitelist,
when it's incapable of running ondemand, in which case we need to use..
ta-da... userspace, and then we start the cpuspeed process.

Again, if you're seeing overhead from using userspace, it's due to your
CPU being crap. There's nothing we can do about it.
Whilst ondemand will load on some of these CPUs, the associated overhead
of switching is very noticable on benchmarks.

Even 'conservative' was too demanding for some of the challenged CPUs.

'crap' here doesn't mean really old stuff too. Any pre-centrino Intel
CPU, any VIA CPU before Nehemiah generation, all mobile Athlons.

We're using ondemand on all K8's too, but the first generation also
sucked iirc, but we're just sucking it up because a) it makes the
already convoluted startup script even more messy and b) no-one can
remember which stepping/models were affected.

Dave

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Richard Hughes 06-28-2008 11:17 AM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 15:18 -0400, Dave Jones wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:13:24PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> > At the moment we set:
> >
> > # CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE is not set
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_USERSPACE=y
> > # CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_ONDEMAND is not set
> > # CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_CONSERVATIVE is not set
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_POWERSAVE=m
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_USERSPACE=y
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_ONDEMAND=m
> > CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_CONSERVATIVE=m
> >
> > This is not ideal from a power-saving point of view.
> >
> > In an ideal world we would:
> >
> > * remove CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_CONSERVATIVE -- ondemand does a better job
> > on all workloads
> > * remove CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_USERSPACE -- we have nothing in userspace
> > that needs this sort of control, and if we did, the latency would be
> > horrible
>
> needed for the cpuspeed governor

Sure, I might have been a bit hasty in saying _remove_ - I don't really
care about old CPU types but I appreciate lots of people do.

> > * remove CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_POWERSAVE -- ondemand automatically
> > throttles down to lowest, and is just a hardcoded state
> > * compile into the kernel CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_ONDEMAND -- we really
> > want to be running this on all systems that support it
> > * set ONDEMAND or PERFORMANCE to default as USERSPACE is just changed
> > to something else by cpuspeed. You really don't want to be using
> > USERSPACE at all.
>
> Not all CPUs are capable of running ondemand because of the latency they
> incur during transitions.

Right, isn't the latency exported by the kernel? Surely it's a userspace
decision (policy) if the latency is acceptable? The little tool Matthew
and I prototyped yesterday allows an admin to tweak the latency they
want in the whole system, and depending on the latency acceptable,
different things like ALPM, ASPM and the governor are put in different
modes. Obviously these new switches help in powersaving (lots) but each
add appreciable latency which may be unacceptable.

> > Matthew Garrett and I are working on a latency profile for power
> > management, and having all these modules potentially loaded is bad.
>
> I don't follow this. Can you show whatever numbers you have that you're
> basing this on ?

Well, not bad from a speed point of view, bad from a complexity view. If
we compile in ondemand, performance and userspace then we can leave it
up to policy in the system to decide what makes sense. The policy in
userspace can get the latency of the ondemand change and make a decision
on that.

Some of the logic in cpuspeed seems a little complex, and I'm wondering
if we need to be running a service like cpuspeed on a desktop laptop.

Richard.


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Adam Tkac 06-30-2008 07:10 AM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:13:24PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> * remove CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_POWERSAVE -- ondemand automatically
> throttles down to lowest, and is just a hardcoded state

I don't think removal of powersave governor is good idea. Generally
ondemand governor does great job but in some cases doesn't. For
example when I play some films in mplayer ondemand sets frequency to
max which is not needed, of course.

Powersave governor is also good in case that you have bad fan in your
laptop and you are going to compile some big source. Without powersave
it is not possible (yes, it really happens :) )

> Matthew Garrett and I are working on a latency profile for power
> management, and having all these modules potentially loaded is bad.
>
> Comments?
>

I think we should preserve ondemand and powersave governors (and
potentialy others as Dave Jones wrote in this thread). Please don't
drop them in favour of your project which might be generally better but
I believe there are cases where current governors are better.

Adam

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From: "(=?utf-8?q?``-_-´´?=) -- Fernando"
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Olá Oguz e a todos.

On Thursday 26 June 2008 06:56:39 Oguz Yarimtepe wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was trying to set up my brightness keys on my laptop. They are fn+f5
> for brightness up and fn+f4 for down. When i press them i can see the
> bar that shows the increase and decrease of birghtness but there is n
> change at the backlight of my screen. Then i checked the xev output
> for those keys and saw the NoSymbol info so i added keysym info to the
> xmodmap.conf file. Now i can see that the keycode is attached to
> keysym also to an action.

Open up gconf-editor, and set the proper value for the keyb light.

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Olá norman e a todos.

On Friday 27 June 2008 10:59:48 norman wrote:
> I am buying an Inspiron 1520 with Ubuntu 7.10 installed and I want to
> set it up with Win XP Pro and Ubuntu 8.04. I thought I would do this by
> first installing XP Pro, which I presume will remove the Ubuntu 7.10 and
> then to install Ubuntu 8.04 full version and not the upgrade.
>
> Could some kind person please let me know if what I propose is the best
> way to set up the twin boot condition.
>
> Norman

Its called DUAL boot (and not twin), and yes, that is one of the best ways of doing it.

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Olá Sergio e a todos.

On Thursday 26 June 2008 02:20:17 Sergio Belkin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a gui tool that has support for:
>
> *wpa enterprise
> *ttls
> *pap
> *ability for check server certificate
> *ability for check name server
>
> nm-applet can perform all above tasks except las one: it can't check
> name server.
>
> Does exist a gui tool that do that?
>
> Thanks in advance

sudo iwlist wlan0 scanning ???
man iwlist

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To: Tortise <tortise@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Ubuntu Server 8.04 Slow File Uploads
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Olá Tortise e a todos.

On Thursday 26 June 2008 06:14:15 Tortise wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have two servers and an XP notebook all on same Gig LAN, one an old Celeron 466 / Debian.
>
> From Windows XP / Dual Pentium notebook can transfer a 1 Meg binary file in the blink of an eye onto Debian. (Less than a second)
>
> Have made a new Ubuntu Server 8.04, AMD 500 II, setup SSH, log in using SFTP (Same PC, same WinSCP settings etc!) same file takes 10
> mins!!! Can download file off new server (once its there!) in a flash, so server NIC seems OK.
>
> I installed using apt-get install ssh openssh-server
>
> Was using WinSCP 406, upgraded to 407, same, upgraded 413, still same! The /etc/ssh/sshd_config files on the respective machines are
> largely identical, apart from upgrade(?) syntax changes. Protocol is SFTP(SCP), no key file, SSH protocl Ver 2. (Same for each shown
> with saved hovertip)
>
> Checking further both CPU's utilization are minimally touched by this, using task manager and top.
>
> I also note the Ubuntu server transfers seem to hang with the transfer window frequently unresponsive, yet updated every multiple of
> seconds. They start off reporting very fast transfers (as expected) with typ speeds of 50,000B/s
>
> Thinking it may be WinSCP I tried tunnelier, with the same results!
>
> Suggests something about ubuntu server?, perhaps setup, perhaps someone here can suggest please?
>
> The Tortise.

SSH tends to have an huge impact on a CPU. so its strange that u dont see any usage.
you may check LP to see if there are any bugs against SSH server.

maybe there is something with the new ssh blacklist modules...

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Subject: Re: help on PRO/Wireless 4965 AG or AGN Network Connection driver
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:33:23 +0100
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Olá Shannon e a todos.

On Thursday 12 June 2008 04:54:41 Shannon McMackin wrote:
> AC Perdon wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a fujitsu esprimo mobile that has a PRO/Wireless 4965 AG or AGN
> > Network Connection, I have installed 8.04 but seem that the wireless is
> > not showing in the Network Settings see attached screenshot. I have
> > update my kernel is now 2.6.24-18-generic but stll no luck. Below are
> > other details:
> >
> > *-network
> > description: Network controller
> > product: PRO/Wireless 4965 AG or AGN Network Connection
> > vendor: Intel Corporation
> > physical id: 0
> > bus info: pci@0000:06:00.0
> > version: 61
> > width: 64 bits
> > clock: 33MHz
> > capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list
> > configuration: driver=iwl4965 latency=0 module=iwl4965
> >
> > Please advice or any how-to site that could fix this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > AC Perdon
>
> Make sure install the backports package for your kernel as well as linux
> ubuntu modules. Then you should use NetworkManager for configuring your wireless interface.

not working for me!
still cant use my 4965, even with backports modules


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To: Justin Tan <lord_king10@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Projectors on Ubuntu
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Olá Justin e a todos.

On Tuesday 24 June 2008 01:09:29 Justin Tan wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am using Ubuntu 8.04, on a Thinkpad T61. I've been trying to get Ubuntu to work on a external projector but when I press Fn+F7 I do not see anything. I tried fiddling with it once but it ended up getting my computer stuck in 600x400 resolution and I had to reinstall ubuntu. Could anyone help me?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Justin

try xrandr --auto.
also make sure that u dont have a screen size larger then those supported by the projector. Most go above 1024.
How large is your screen?

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Richard Hughes 06-30-2008 09:54 AM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Mon, 2008-06-30 at 09:10 +0200, Adam Tkac wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:13:24PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> > * remove CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_POWERSAVE -- ondemand automatically
> > throttles down to lowest, and is just a hardcoded state
>
> I don't think removal of powersave governor is good idea. Generally
> ondemand governor does great job but in some cases doesn't. For
> example when I play some films in mplayer ondemand sets frequency to
> max which is not needed, of course.

Right, so we need to fix ondemand to be cleverer.

> Powersave governor is also good in case that you have bad fan in your
> laptop and you are going to compile some big source. Without powersave
> it is not possible (yes, it really happens :) )

Right, thermal management is similar to power management for the action
but not for the policy. I don't think forcing the lowest speed setting
is the correct way to fix this. If the laptop is running cool, why use
the slowest speed?

> > Matthew Garrett and I are working on a latency profile for power
> > management, and having all these modules potentially loaded is bad.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
>
> I think we should preserve ondemand and powersave governors (and
> potentialy others as Dave Jones wrote in this thread). Please don't
> drop them in favour of your project which might be generally better but
> I believe there are cases where current governors are better.

Right, cheers for your feedback. In view of everybodies comments, what
about the following:

* Compile _into_ the kernel ondemand, performance, powersave and
userspace.
* Default to performance in the kernel rather than userspace
* Build as a module conservative with the view of just fixing ondemand
if there are any special use-cases that conservative is better at
* Export the P and C state latency to userspace and let the system
policy dictate the governor. For instance, even for machines that have a
long latency for changing P states should be able to use ondemand if we
want to save maximum power.

How does that sound?

Richard.


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Matthew Garrett 06-30-2008 11:20 AM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 09:10:28AM +0200, Adam Tkac wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:13:24PM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> > * remove CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_POWERSAVE -- ondemand automatically
> > throttles down to lowest, and is just a hardcoded state
>
> I don't think removal of powersave governor is good idea. Generally
> ondemand governor does great job but in some cases doesn't. For
> example when I play some films in mplayer ondemand sets frequency to
> max which is not needed, of course.

The same can be achieved by altering
/sys/devices/system/cpu/*/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq, but it's still
likely that you're consuming less power when ondemand is setting your
frequency to max. An idle fast processor consumes less power than an
active slow one.

> Powersave governor is also good in case that you have bad fan in your
> laptop and you are going to compile some big source. Without powersave
> it is not possible (yes, it really happens :) )

http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/6/16/100

> I think we should preserve ondemand and powersave governors (and
> potentialy others as Dave Jones wrote in this thread). Please don't
> drop them in favour of your project which might be generally better but
> I believe there are cases where current governors are better.

I'm open to indications as to what these are :) Powersave is
semantically identical to ondemand with scaling_max_freq altered.
Performance is semantically identical to ondemand with scaling_min_freq
altered.

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Jarod Wilson 06-30-2008 04:30 PM

kernel module options for cpufreq
 
On Monday 30 June 2008 05:54:32 am Richard Hughes wrote:
> Right, cheers for your feedback. In view of everybodies comments, what
> about the following:
>
> * Compile _into_ the kernel ondemand, performance, powersave and
> userspace.

Sounds reasonable.

> * Default to performance in the kernel rather than userspace

What's the difference? Both leave the cpu at its max speed all the time,
unless the cpuspeed daemon gets started up in the userspace case.

> * Build as a module conservative with the view of just fixing ondemand
> if there are any special use-cases that conservative is better at
> * Export the P and C state latency to userspace and let the system
> policy dictate the governor. For instance, even for machines that have a
> long latency for changing P states should be able to use ondemand if we
> want to save maximum power.
>
> How does that sound?

Mostly sane. System policy dictating governor over the ugliness we do in the
cpuspeed init script would be nice. Even nicer would be if we could outright
get rid of the initscript (not sure what people who need the cpuspeed daemon
are to do in that case though).

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