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Old 06-15-2008, 04:32 PM
Ville-Pekka Vainio
 
Default Finnish spell checking packages and comps

Hi,

We now have the Enchant Voikko provider in Fedora (package enchant-voikko),
which provides Finnish spell checking support in Enchant. I would like to add
it in comps for F10 and F9, but it's (clearly) not a GUI app and enchant
itself is not in comps at all. This is what I'd like to add under
the "Finnish support" group:

<packagereq type="conditional" requires="enchant">enchant-voikko</packagereq>

Would that be ok? I see pretty much the same has been done for hunspell
packages for different languages, but hunspell is in the Base group, enchant
is not. What should I do?

I also have a package called tmispell-voikko, which can be used as an ispell
replacement for Finnish and it also has an ncurses "GUI". Technically it's a
text mode app, but could I still add it? It would go under the "Finnish
Support" group as well:

<packagereq type="optional">tmispell-voikko</packagereq>


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Old 06-16-2008, 01:50 PM
"Jesse Keating"
 
Default Finnish spell checking packages and comps

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> wrote:

Hi,



We now have the Enchant Voikko provider in Fedora (package enchant-voikko),

which provides Finnish spell checking support in Enchant. I would like to add

it in comps for F10 and F9, but it's (clearly) not a GUI app and enchant

itself is not in comps at all. This is what I'd like to add under

the "Finnish support" group:



<packagereq type="conditional" requires="enchant">enchant-voikko</packagereq>



Would that be ok? I see pretty much the same has been done for hunspell

packages for different languages, but hunspell is in the Base group, enchant

is not. What should I do?



I also have a package called tmispell-voikko, which can be used as an ispell

replacement for Finnish and it also has an ncurses "GUI". Technically it's a

text mode app, but could I still add it? It would go under the "Finnish

Support" group as well:



<packagereq type="optional">tmispell-voikko</packagereq>




<still not happy that this isn't within hunspell>

Since these packages all seem extremely specific to Finnish, I don't necessarily see a problem with just listing them in Finnish-support, without any conditionals.


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Old 06-16-2008, 07:30 PM
Ville-Pekka Vainio
 
Default Finnish spell checking packages and comps

Jesse Keating wrote:
> <still not happy that this isn't within hunspell>
>
> Since these packages all seem extremely specific to Finnish, I don't
> necessarily see a problem with just listing them in Finnish-support,
> without any conditionals.

Here's what I've done now: I've added enchant-voikko as default for F10 and as
optional for F9 (because I wasn't sure if you can/should add any "default"
stuff after the release). I've also added tmispell-voikko as optional for
F8-F10.

I noticed F8 comps doesn't have openoffice.org-voikko yet, but I wasn't sure
if I can add '<packagereq type="conditional"
requires="openoffice.org-core">openoffice.org-voikko</packagereq>' to a
stable release and if adding it as optional would work at all, as it really
needs openoffice.


About hunspell: The main Voikko maintainer has added some discussion points
about not using hunspell to
<http://voikko.sourceforge.net/architecture.html>. From what I have
understood from mailing list discussions, switching to hunspell would in
practice mean worse spell checking results, losing hyphenation support and
not having the possibility of implementing a grammar checker in the near
future.


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Old 06-16-2008, 09:07 PM
"Timo Jyrinki"
 
Default Finnish spell checking packages and comps

Jesse Keating wrote:
> <still not happy that this isn't within hunspell>

I'd like to add that the nature of languages is such that there is no
way to have "one spellchecking backend for them all", if the backend
makes any assumptions of the languages. What Fedora has actually done,
implementing enchant support from existing patches etc. is just what
should be done too, as Enchant is an abstraction library that does not
make too much assumptions.

The only exceptions to Enchant usage are openoffice.org and mozilla
products, which is why currently separate Voikko extensions will be
provided for them. Regarding Mozilla for example, they just finished
switching to hunspell instead of enchant, possibly also believing that
it would solve spell-checking problems because hunspell's developers
have relatively actively touted its features.

Hunspell _is_ a very good thing for eg. Indo-European languages,
bringing ispell/aspell/myspell hopefully to an end, but it cannot be
expected to be flexible enough for all languages. The updated Voikko
architecture page linked in Ville-Pekka's post explains a few
problems, possibly the other Enchant users like Zemberek (Turkish) or
hspell (Hebrew) would have more insight too.

-Timo

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Old 06-16-2008, 10:54 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Finnish spell checking packages and comps

Timo Jyrinki <timo.jyrinki <at> gmail.com> writes:
> The only exceptions to Enchant usage are openoffice.org and mozilla
> products, which is why currently separate Voikko extensions will be
> provided for them.

There's also the original KSpell interface in KDE 3 and the compatibility
K3Spell class in KDE 4. Those expect an ispell-compatible command-line
interface. It is possible to use tmispell for this purpose, and in fact I have
a patch for that already, though not applied yet, but each new spellchecker has
to be added separately (which I already did for hunspell). (Unfortunately,
enchant's command line is not usable for this purpose at all.) Changing the
code to use Enchant as a library instead of running command-line spellcheckers
would be a significant effort for that legacy code, so it is unlikely to
happen.

The future of spellchecking in KDE is of course Sonnet (which was called
KSpell2 in KDE 3), which already uses Enchant, but it will take time until all
the applications are ported, if it ever completely happens.

Kevin Kofler

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