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Old 06-11-2008, 02:34 PM
seth vidal
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 18:28 +0400, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:
> I would like to propose upgrade the "mailx" package (cmdline /bin/mail
> interface) to the newer source from the Heirloom project:
> http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/mailx.html . The new source is derived
> from the old one and is fully compatible with it.
>
> Such a replacement (from old bsd mailx-8.1.x to the Heirloom's
> mailx-12.x) is already done in OpenSuse and Slackware.
>
> Initially, the project was named as "nail". Since the version of 12.x it
> was renamed to the ordinary name of "mailx", (because the original
> mailx-8.x no more developed). Under the name of "nail" it is already in
> Fedora. I continue to maintain it as "nail", while the original
> mailx-8.x is used.
>
> Mailx-12.x adds a lot of useful functionality to the "cmdline mail
> command", which seems to be expected long years ago. Without it, some
> tasks can be performed only by TUI or even GUI applications, which makes
> impossible to automate things by scripts.
>
> My initial motivation to add nail/mailx to Fedora was inspired by the
> time of switching to Dovecot IMAP server and recommendation to switch
> from mailbox to Maildir format. The current /bin/mail do not work with
> Maildir, hence it cannot be used for reading mail from cmdline at all
> (until you still use mailbox format). Besides the Maildir support (which
> looks like a strong requirement for the upgrading), there are such
> features as MIME support, encodings, attachments, POP3/IMAP, direct
> SMTP, SSL etc., see http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/mailx.html
>
> Note, that SSL support can be provided either by OpenSSL or by NSS. The
> use of NSS matches the recent requirements of Fedora's "Security
> Consolidation".
>

Does the cli format break compat with mailx as we know it now? Ie: will
we need to fix an arse-load of cron jobs and what not to behave?

-sv


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Old 06-11-2008, 02:38 PM
Nigel Metheringham
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:28, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:

Mailx-12.x adds a lot of useful functionality to the "cmdline mail
command", which seems to be expected long years ago. Without it,
some tasks can be performed only by TUI or even GUI applications,
which makes impossible to automate things by scripts.



This looks good, but on a minimal system how many other packages would
be pulled in as dependancies over the existing mailx?


Nigel.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:02 PM
Dmitry Butskoy
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

seth vidal wrote:


Does the cli format break compat with mailx as we know it now? Ie: will
we need to fix an arse-load of cron jobs and what not to behave?



There is an upstream's recommendation to use in scripts (including cron
jobs) as "MAILRC=/dev/null mailx", whereas now it is jist "mail". I
don't know whether it is for corner cases or it is an actual issue.
Perhaps we should look how Suse and Slackware package this (btw, Suse
had switched for a long time).


Anyway, we can implement /bin/mail and /usr/bin/Mail as wrappers (or
patch the mailx to differ its behaviour depending on how it was called)...



~buc
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy

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Old 06-11-2008, 03:06 PM
Dmitry Butskoy
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

Nigel Metheringham wrote:


On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:28, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:

Mailx-12.x adds a lot of useful functionality to the "cmdline mail
command", which seems to be expected long years ago. Without it, some
tasks can be performed only by TUI or even GUI applications, which
makes impossible to automate things by scripts.



This looks good, but on a minimal system how many other packages would
be pulled in as dependancies over the existing mailx?


For now, "openssl" (or "nss") and "krb5-libs". Is it OK for a minimal
system?



~buc
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy

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Old 06-11-2008, 03:20 PM
Dmitry Butskoy
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

Dmitry Butskoy wrote:

seth vidal wrote:


Does the cli format break compat with mailx as we know it now? Ie: will
we need to fix an arse-load of cron jobs and what not to behave?



There is an upstream's recommendation to use in scripts (including
cron jobs) as "MAILRC=/dev/null mailx", whereas now it is jist "mail".
I don't know whether it is for corner cases or it is an actual issue.
Perhaps we should look how Suse and Slackware package this (btw, Suse
had switched for a long time).


BTW, the current "mail" already reads ~/.mailrc and, depending on "-n",
/etc/mail.rc . Mailx-12.x will do the same (it explains why Suse does
not use any wrappers etc.). IOW, nothing worse.



~buc
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy

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Old 06-11-2008, 03:57 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

Dmitry Butskoy (buc@odusz.so-cdu.ru) said:
> BTW, the current "mail" already reads ~/.mailrc and, depending on "-n",
> /etc/mail.rc . Mailx-12.x will do the same (it explains why Suse does not
> use any wrappers etc.). IOW, nothing worse.

If it's command-line compatible for older users, I don't see a problem.

Bill

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Old 06-11-2008, 03:57 PM
seth vidal
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 19:20 +0400, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:
> Dmitry Butskoy wrote:
> > seth vidal wrote:
> >>
> >> Does the cli format break compat with mailx as we know it now? Ie: will
> >> we need to fix an arse-load of cron jobs and what not to behave?
> >>
> >
> > There is an upstream's recommendation to use in scripts (including
> > cron jobs) as "MAILRC=/dev/null mailx", whereas now it is jist "mail".
> > I don't know whether it is for corner cases or it is an actual issue.
> > Perhaps we should look how Suse and Slackware package this (btw, Suse
> > had switched for a long time).
>
> BTW, the current "mail" already reads ~/.mailrc and, depending on "-n",
> /etc/mail.rc . Mailx-12.x will do the same (it explains why Suse does
> not use any wrappers etc.). IOW, nothing worse.
>

If it acts the same then I don't see a good reason not to upgrade it.
Though I will say - maybe do this as an F10 thing and let f8,F9 keep the
older one?

-sv


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Old 06-11-2008, 04:05 PM
Dmitry Butskoy
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

seth vidal wrote:

On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 19:20 +0400, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:

BTW, the current "mail" already reads ~/.mailrc and, depending on "-n",
/etc/mail.rc . Mailx-12.x will do the same (it explains why Suse does
not use any wrappers etc.). IOW, nothing worse.





If it acts the same then I don't see a good reason not to upgrade it.
Though I will say - maybe do this as an F10 thing and let f8,F9 keep the
older one?



Sure. As Rawhide (F10) thing only. For those who want it in F8/F9, there
is already "nail"



~buc
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DmitryButskoy

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Old 06-11-2008, 09:16 PM
Manuel Wolfshant
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

On 06/11/2008 06:06 PM, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:

Nigel Metheringham wrote:


On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:28, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:

Mailx-12.x adds a lot of useful functionality to the "cmdline mail
command", which seems to be expected long years ago. Without it,
some tasks can be performed only by TUI or even GUI applications,
which makes impossible to automate things by scripts.


I am 100% in favor. I already use nail instead of mail everywhere I need
to use command line tools. What I love most is it's ability to attach files.






This looks good, but on a minimal system how many other packages
would be pulled in as dependancies over the existing mailx?


For now, "openssl" (or "nss") and "krb5-libs". Is it OK for a minimal
system?
openssl and krb5-libs are already required by openssh so I'd say it's
not a problem


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Old 06-12-2008, 07:58 AM
Nigel Metheringham
 
Default /bin/mail replacement (next generation of mailx)

On 11 Jun 2008, at 16:06, Dmitry Butskoy wrote:


Nigel Metheringham wrote:

This looks good, but on a minimal system how many other packages
would be pulled in as dependancies over the existing mailx?



For now, "openssl" (or "nss") and "krb5-libs". Is it OK for a minimal
system?


Both of those ought to be on a system anyhow (openssh would need them).

I was concerned that things like imap support could pull in a pile of
other deps, but that sets my mind at rest wrt bloating the minimal
install.

Nigel.

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