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Old 07-05-2012, 04:04 PM
David Walluck
 
Default Can we go to Groovy 2.0?

On 07/05/2012 10:23 AM, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
> I really hope that the potential packager will package the latest
> released version in order to prevent such incompatibility problems
> soon after the package is introduced.

IMO, gradle is a really bad idea/design. Instead of being declarative
like ant, it contains actual code to do the build (which seems
completely unnecessary and will tend to make every build different).

The code generally extends the gradle API, so if the gradle API changes,
and it does, all build files must be patched. I can say this was mostly
never a problem for ant, which also tried to retain backwards
compatibility for the most part.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:27 PM
Aleksandar Kurtakov
 
Default Can we go to Groovy 2.0?

----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Walluck" <david@zarb.org>
> To: java-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 7:04:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [fedora-java] Can we go to Groovy 2.0?
>
> On 07/05/2012 10:23 AM, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
> > I really hope that the potential packager will package the latest
> > released version in order to prevent such incompatibility problems
> > soon after the package is introduced.
>
> IMO, gradle is a really bad idea/design. Instead of being declarative
> like ant, it contains actual code to do the build (which seems
> completely unnecessary and will tend to make every build different).

I can not agree more. I have never seen worse build system in Java land.

Alex


>
> The code generally extends the gradle API, so if the gradle API
> changes,
> and it does, all build files must be patched. I can say this was
> mostly
> never a problem for ant, which also tried to retain backwards
> compatibility for the most part.
> --
> java-devel mailing list
> java-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/java-devel
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:49 PM
Andrew Dinn
 
Default Can we go to Groovy 2.0?

On 05/07/12 17:27, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
> I can not agree more. I have never seen worse build system in Java land.

Given how many bad ones there are to choose from that is quite damning.

regards,


Andrew Dinn
-----------
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:04 PM
David Walluck
 
Default Can we go to Groovy 2.0?

On 07/05/2012 12:49 PM, Andrew Dinn wrote:
> On 05/07/12 17:27, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
>> I can not agree more. I have never seen worse build system in Java land.
>
> Given how many bad ones there are to choose from that is quite damning.

Even granting that there are plenty of things to hate about, e.g.,
maven, the point is that there is a common lifecycle there at least.

The same goes for GNU autotools. It's not about how great it is, but
that nearly 100% of the time I feel I know how to build an autotools
project and I know what it will try to do on the system.

Now, we all want to go backwards and start writing our Makefiles by hand
making the same mistakes over and over again.

Wait, that's not good enough, since `make' is too declarative and
doesn't give me enough power.

I am the best programmer in the world, so I am not going to trust some
boilerplate code that somebody else wrote. I am going to need a full
scripting language for my build (or maybe even some compiled code once I
find that that a simple script is not powerful enough either) that calls
my 100 awesome functions that I wrote just to do a ``simple' file copy.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:51 PM
Carlo de Wolf
 
Default Can we go to Groovy 2.0?

On 07/05/2012 07:04 PM, David Walluck wrote:

On 07/05/2012 12:49 PM, Andrew Dinn wrote:

On 05/07/12 17:27, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:

I can not agree more. I have never seen worse build system in Java land.

Given how many bad ones there are to choose from that is quite damning.

Even granting that there are plenty of things to hate about, e.g.,
maven, the point is that there is a common lifecycle there at least.

The same goes for GNU autotools. It's not about how great it is, but
that nearly 100% of the time I feel I know how to build an autotools
project and I know what it will try to do on the system.

Now, we all want to go backwards and start writing our Makefiles by hand
making the same mistakes over and over again.

Wait, that's not good enough, since `make' is too declarative and
doesn't give me enough power.

I am the best programmer in the world, so I am not going to trust some
boilerplate code that somebody else wrote. I am going to need a full
scripting language for my build (or maybe even some compiled code once I
find that that a simple script is not powerful enough either) that calls
my 100 awesome functions that I wrote just to do a ``simple' file copy.
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Noxius, the ultimate build tool.
https://github.com/wolfc/jboss-noxius/blob/master/bootstrap/build.java


Comes with a working bootstrap as well.
https://github.com/wolfc/jboss-noxius/blob/master/bootstrap.sh


As an extra bonus it can bootstrap a build too.
https://github.com/wolfc/jboss-noxius/blob/master/bootstrap/bootstrap.java


Need I say more... :-D

Carlo

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