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Old 05-23-2008, 03:37 PM
David Zeuthen
 
Default A new user management tool

On Fri, 2008-05-23 at 17:24 +0200, Matej Cepl wrote:
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 08:36:20 -0400, Matthias Clasen scripst:
> > We're following the recommendations of gnome documentation team here:
> > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2008-April/msg00028.html
> >
> > login (n., adj.)
> > The act of logging in to a computer, or something related to logging in
> > to a computer. Do not use "login" or "login name" as a synonym for
> > username. Do not use "logon".
>
> OK, I used to be a lawyer, so I am used to distinguishing between
> authorities which I need to strongly adhere and to somebody who just made
> to much crack and nothing to do. I am afraid this falls squarely into the
> latter camp.

I disagree. Besides, I'm not sure how useful is to bikeshed about
strings in gimped up stuff.

David


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Old 05-23-2008, 05:27 PM
"Quasar Jarosz"
 
Default A new user management tool

> Could we just call it "Login name"? This sounds really like a bad
> macintoshism to me -- generating nonsensical name just for sake
> of not sounding like a computerese -- even the Aunt Tillie these
> days knows what login name is, and this duo "Name/Short Name" is
> guaranteed to confuse everybody.

I agree, Short Name sounds awful, and doesn't seem to mean anything.
"Login name" or "Username" would make much more sense.

Quasar

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Old 05-23-2008, 07:35 PM
drago01
 
Default A new user management tool

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Quasar Jarosz <quasar@ja.rosz.org> wrote:
>> Could we just call it "Login name"? This sounds really like a bad
>> macintoshism to me -- generating nonsensical name just for sake
>> of not sounding like a computerese -- even the Aunt Tillie these
>> days knows what login name is, and this duo "Name/Short Name" is
>> guaranteed to confuse everybody.
>
> I agree, Short Name sounds awful, and doesn't seem to mean anything.
> "Login name" or "Username" would make much more sense.

+1

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Old 05-23-2008, 09:36 PM
Dan Winship
 
Default A new user management tool

Nils Philippsen wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 16:52 -0400, Dan Winship wrote:
>
>> I assume "Location" will tie in in some way with the improved
>> Location/Time Zone stuff?
>
> I'm interested in that part as well -- if we map locations to timezones
> (which I guess isn't trivial), there should be one component doing it,
> regardless of if that frontend is s-c-date or a
> desktop-specific/user-centric tool.

See also http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/TimeZoneAndLocation

-- Dan

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Old 05-23-2008, 11:19 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default A new user management tool

On Fri, 2008-05-23 at 17:24 +0200, Matej Cepl wrote:
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 08:36:20 -0400, Matthias Clasen scripst:
> > We're following the recommendations of gnome documentation team here:
> > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2008-April/msg00028.html
> >
> > login (n., adj.)
> > The act of logging in to a computer, or something related to logging in
> > to a computer. Do not use "login" or "login name" as a synonym for
> > username. Do not use "logon".
>
> OK, I used to be a lawyer, so I am used to distinguishing between
> authorities which I need to strongly adhere and to somebody who just made
> to much crack and nothing to do. I am afraid this falls squarely into the
> latter camp. Cannot we somehow object to this nonsense? Can I do something
> about it (so that we are not wasting your time)?

I'll reiterate what's in the mail, which is also in the dictionary:
login is a verb, not a noun. FWIW, MacOS X qualifies it with "Unix"
username.

It should probably never be visible to the user though (so could easily
be generated, or hidden in a disclosure triangle). Anybody fancies
filing bugs about visible login names when apps should use the person's
name?

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Old 05-23-2008, 11:29 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default A new user management tool

On Fri, 2008-05-23 at 09:06 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
<snip>
> > At least for some SMBs (those who don't trust Google/Yahoo/... with
> > their mails), a user mgmt tool should at some point (by way of a plugin
> > or else) do exactly that, e.g. log into the company's cyrus-imapd and
> > create a mailbox for the user. Maybe that's better suited for the
> > enterprisey kind of user mgmt tool, however.
>
> In fact, an earlier draft of the design had the idea of plugins for this
> kind of setup tasks. Maybe we'll have to revisit it.
> For the client-side email setup, I guess you could get 90% of the way
> there sabayon - just give the user a sabayon profile that has all the
> mail configuration set up except for the email address, that evolution
> can then pick up from the user service...

I'm not sure we should be having e-mail addresses, or even e-mail setup
in the system (unless it was possible to do for sysadmins as a Python
plugin, or something).

I have 6 e-mail addresses from different projects, some are aliases,
some are different accounts, which would be too complicated to 1)
present in the UI rationally, 2) setup without having people bored about
the details when they're just trying to login.

It would make more sense, for the "this is my e-mail" to be able to call
up evolution's addressbook to be able to enter parts of that
information, or have a way to import the data from somewhere else (beam
a vCard from your phone). MacOS X has that "that vCard is me" concept in
the addressbook as well.

What we _could_ setup would be an GNOME Online Desktop login, that's
been discussed previously for setting up a small storage, blog, etc. for
single users, similar to .Mac. This would be less intrusive as a first
step, but would certainly require more infrastructure.

Cheers

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Old 05-26-2008, 09:43 AM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default A new user management tool

On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 00:29 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-05-23 at 09:06 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> <snip>
> > > At least for some SMBs (those who don't trust Google/Yahoo/... with
> > > their mails), a user mgmt tool should at some point (by way of a plugin
> > > or else) do exactly that, e.g. log into the company's cyrus-imapd and
> > > create a mailbox for the user. Maybe that's better suited for the
> > > enterprisey kind of user mgmt tool, however.
> >
> > In fact, an earlier draft of the design had the idea of plugins for this
> > kind of setup tasks. Maybe we'll have to revisit it.
> > For the client-side email setup, I guess you could get 90% of the way
> > there sabayon - just give the user a sabayon profile that has all the
> > mail configuration set up except for the email address, that evolution
> > can then pick up from the user service...
>
> I'm not sure we should be having e-mail addresses, or even e-mail setup
> in the system (unless it was possible to do for sysadmins as a Python
> plugin, or something).

That's roughly what I meant -- this would really only have a tangible
benefit in multi user situations with homogenous email settings, e.g. a
company where most users will have mail addresses that can be generated
programatically ("username@domain.tld",
"firstname.surname@domain.tld", ...), with known POP/IMAP/SMTP servers.
Granted, "multi" may be as low as "2", for instance home user systems
where you have one computer buff in the family who administrates the
system.

Nils
--
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Old 05-26-2008, 05:52 PM
Thomas Woerner
 
Default A new user management tool

Matthias Clasen wrote:

We (Jon McCann and myself, with some input from others) have been
working on a design for a new user management tool, with the goal of
coming up with something better than the current trias of
system-config-users, gnome-about-me and gdmsetup.


The design is not finalized, you can see the current state of affairs
here: http://people.redhat.com/mclasen/user-account3.pdf.bz2
(I really wanted to put this on the wiki, but all I could only get proxy
errors when trying to do so).

Comments are welcome. Please note the section on target audience and use
cases.


Matthias




Please add fields to set and change user and group IDs - they are
important especially in an enterprise environment.


Am I right, that the "Login options" are not user specific? (No user is
selected.) So please separate it from the users list and move it below
the "Add"- and "Remove"-user buttons. Then it is more clear that you can
not add and remove "Login options", but something in the list. BTW: I
think it would be nice to give the list a description.


If you do not like the word "login", then you could use these two: "User
Name" and "Full Name".


Thomas

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Old 05-27-2008, 08:00 AM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default A new user management tool

On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 00:19 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:

> It should probably never be visible to the user though (so could easily
> be generated, or hidden in a disclosure triangle). Anybody fancies
> filing bugs about visible login names when apps should use the person's
> name?

Sometimes you need a username to differentiate between people that have
the same real name. In Germany for instance, you'll find a lot of
"Markus Müller"s and I'm sure other languages have their share of common
names as well, so that should be taken into account. A unix username is
a good differentiator there IMO.

Nils
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Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:06 AM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default A new user management tool

On Mon, 2008-05-26 at 19:52 +0200, Thomas Woerner wrote:
> Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > We (Jon McCann and myself, with some input from others) have been
> > working on a design for a new user management tool, with the goal of
> > coming up with something better than the current trias of
> > system-config-users, gnome-about-me and gdmsetup.
> >
> > The design is not finalized, you can see the current state of affairs
> > here: http://people.redhat.com/mclasen/user-account3.pdf.bz2
> > (I really wanted to put this on the wiki, but all I could only get proxy
> > errors when trying to do so).
> >
> > Comments are welcome. Please note the section on target audience and use
> > cases.
> >
> >
> > Matthias
> >
> >
>
> Please add fields to set and change user and group IDs - they are
> important especially in an enterprise environment.

I think this tool is meant especially for not enterprisey environments,
for such you can use s-c-users if you want a native GUI which lets you
set them.

> Am I right, that the "Login options" are not user specific? (No user is
> selected.) So please separate it from the users list and move it below
> the "Add"- and "Remove"-user buttons. Then it is more clear that you can
> not add and remove "Login options", but something in the list. BTW: I
> think it would be nice to give the list a description.
>
> If you do not like the word "login", then you could use these two: "User
> Name" and "Full Name".

Sounds good to me.

Nils
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Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759
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