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"Valent Turkovic" 03-25-2008 09:30 AM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
I have a few ideas that IMO would make Fedora more usable as a general
desktop and developer platform:

What? :

1. have gnome-terminal shortcut on gnome panel (as firefox and evolution)

2. have gnome clipboard manager installed by default (glipper gnome applet)

3. have /usr/sbin and /sbin in PATH for regular users


Why? :

1. because gnome-terminal is the second most used [1] application on
gnome desktop and this would make it more accessible for users.

2. because any desktop needs a good clipboard manager, it enhances
usability enormously.

3. I personally need it only for some commands - like /sbin/ifconfig
and /sbin/iwconfig are there any down sides to putting new /sbin and
/usr/sbin in every users PATH variable? What do you think is this a
good or bad idea?

Cheers,
Valent.

[1] http://online.gnome.org/applications

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Gian Paolo Mureddu 03-25-2008 05:02 PM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
Valent Turkovic escribió:

I have a few ideas that IMO would make Fedora more usable as a general
desktop and developer platform:

What? :

1. have gnome-terminal shortcut on gnome panel (as firefox and evolution)

2. have gnome clipboard manager installed by default (glipper gnome applet)



I agree with these two.


3. have /usr/sbin and /sbin in PATH for regular users



I don't agree with this one...


Why? :

1. because gnome-terminal is the second most used [1] application on
gnome desktop and this would make it more accessible for users.

2. because any desktop needs a good clipboard manager, it enhances
usability enormously.



These two indeed make sense, though some people might think that having
a shortcut for the terminal in the panel by default may be against the
purpose of the desktop usability guidelines.



3. I personally need it only for some commands - like /sbin/ifconfig
and /sbin/iwconfig are there any down sides to putting new /sbin and
/usr/sbin in every users PATH variable? What do you think is this a
good or bad idea?



Maybe a better approach for those commands in particular would be to add
aliases for them in /usr/bin? I can think of a couple more commands
that may benefit from being also available in their restricted mode to
regular users (lspci, lsusb, lsof, etc), but being as /sbin paths are
meant for administrative tasks, I actually do see having them as part of
a regular user's PATH a potential security risk.



Cheers,
Valent.

[1] http://online.gnome.org/applications




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Christopher Aillon 03-25-2008 09:27 PM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
On 03/25/2008 06:30 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote:

I have a few ideas that IMO would make Fedora more usable as a general
desktop and developer platform:



You want to look at the development spin, and propose changes there.

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"Valent Turkovic" 03-26-2008 07:25 AM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Christopher Aillon <caillon@redhat.com> wrote:
> On 03/25/2008 06:30 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > I have a few ideas that IMO would make Fedora more usable as a general
> > desktop and developer platform:
> >
>
> You want to look at the development spin, and propose changes there.

IMO this would be beneficial also for Fedora DVD and Fedora Live CD spin also.
Why only developers spin?

Valent.

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Alexander Larsson 03-26-2008 09:54 AM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:30 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> I have a few ideas that IMO would make Fedora more usable as a general
> desktop and developer platform:

> 2. have gnome clipboard manager installed by default (glipper gnome applet)

This causes all sorts of bad problems.
See e.g.:
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2008-March/msg00053.html

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"Valent Turkovic" 03-26-2008 10:42 AM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Alexander Larsson <alexl@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:30 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > I have a few ideas that IMO would make Fedora more usable as a general
> > desktop and developer platform:
>
>
> > 2. have gnome clipboard manager installed by default (glipper gnome applet)
>
> This causes all sorts of bad problems.
> See e.g.:
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2008-March/msg00053.html

Can you explain this in plain english for non-developers. I have been
using klipper and glipper on gnome for years without any issues so I
don't get that "all sorts of bad problems" is causes because it works
perfectly for me.

Valent.


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Benny Amorsen 03-26-2008 10:44 AM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
Gian Paolo Mureddu <gmureddu@prodigy.net.mx> writes:

> but being as /sbin paths are meant for administrative tasks, I
> actually do see having them as part of a regular user's PATH a
> potential security risk.

Right, we keep them from trying to run dangerous commands by putting
those commands into a separate directory. Let's just hope they never
learn to type /sbin/ in front of anything. Maybe we should remove the
/ key from their keyboards, but then they might copy/paste it... What
to do...


/Benny


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Jesse Keating 03-26-2008 11:42 AM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 12:02 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> but being as /sbin paths are
> meant for administrative tasks, I actually do see having them as part of
> a regular user's PATH a potential security risk.

That's completely bogus. A "hidden path" offers 0 security. If you
don't want your users running them, set the permissions on the binary,
or better yet, have the binary check the EUID of the caller. If
non-root, display that the command is for root users, but also allow the
user to get --help and other usage or informational output from the
command. Just don't allow non-root users to apply anything. There
really is no reason I can think of to hide this crap in a different
directory. It just adds needless complication and confusion.

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seth vidal 03-26-2008 11:55 AM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 08:42 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 12:02 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> > but being as /sbin paths are
> > meant for administrative tasks, I actually do see having them as part of
> > a regular user's PATH a potential security risk.
>
> That's completely bogus. A "hidden path" offers 0 security. If you
> don't want your users running them, set the permissions on the binary,
> or better yet, have the binary check the EUID of the caller. If
> non-root, display that the command is for root users, but also allow the
> user to get --help and other usage or informational output from the
> command. Just don't allow non-root users to apply anything. There
> really is no reason I can think of to hide this crap in a different
> directory. It just adds needless complication and confusion.
>

+1
-sv


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"Valent Turkovic" 03-26-2008 12:13 PM

few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop
 
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:55 PM, seth vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 08:42 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 12:02 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> > > but being as /sbin paths are
> > > meant for administrative tasks, I actually do see having them as part of
> > > a regular user's PATH a potential security risk.
> >
> > That's completely bogus. A "hidden path" offers 0 security. If you
> > don't want your users running them, set the permissions on the binary,
> > or better yet, have the binary check the EUID of the caller. If
> > non-root, display that the command is for root users, but also allow the
> > user to get --help and other usage or informational output from the
> > command. Just don't allow non-root users to apply anything. There
> > really is no reason I can think of to hide this crap in a different
> > directory. It just adds needless complication and confusion.
> >
>
> +1
> -sv

I'll post a RFE in BZ regarding this issue. What component should I choose?

Valent.

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