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Old 03-26-2008, 02:26 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 11:04 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Jesse Keating (jkeating@redhat.com) said:
> > On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 08:18 -0500, inode0 wrote:
> > >
> > > Is Fedora committed to the FHS? Or is Red Hat still committed to it?
> > >
> > > The purpose was for root only programs of a certain class to be
> > > located in /sbin for example but including non-root programs there
> > > does muddy the experience for the end user. However I do think it is
> > > cleaner to make those programs available to a user by means other than
> > > adding /sbin to the default path of a normal user. A few links are
> > > cheap. Would links for those in /usr/bin clash with the FHS?
> >
> > I think the idea is to place symlinks in (/usr)/sbin as par of a
> > fhs-compat package. Otherwise the bins actually go in (/usr)/bin.
> > "root only" is extremely muddy these days, especially because as
> > non-root I'd like to explore syntax options and usage statements before
> > I invoke the command with sudo.
>
> Why not just change the path rather than litter the world with symlinks?
>
> (Also, this is getting offtopic for -desktop rather fast.)
>
> Bill
>

Bringing it to fedora-devel. The idea is that you'd only be 'littered'
with symlinks if you install an FHS compat package. Otherwise your
stuff just lives happily in (/usr)/bin.

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Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours?
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Old 03-26-2008, 03:03 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

Jesse Keating (jkeating@redhat.com) said:
> > Why not just change the path rather than litter the world with symlinks?
> >
> > (Also, this is getting offtopic for -desktop rather fast.)
>
> Bringing it to fedora-devel. The idea is that you'd only be 'littered'
> with symlinks if you install an FHS compat package. Otherwise your
> stuff just lives happily in (/usr)/bin.

But changing the path solves it without having to touch every (including
third-party) packages.

Bill

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Old 03-26-2008, 03:13 PM
seth vidal
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 12:03 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Jesse Keating (jkeating@redhat.com) said:
> > > Why not just change the path rather than litter the world with symlinks?
> > >
> > > (Also, this is getting offtopic for -desktop rather fast.)
> >
> > Bringing it to fedora-devel. The idea is that you'd only be 'littered'
> > with symlinks if you install an FHS compat package. Otherwise your
> > stuff just lives happily in (/usr)/bin.
>
> But changing the path solves it without having to touch every (including
> third-party) packages.

But it's not just about the path. It's also about finding it in scripts,
among other places.

-sv


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Old 03-26-2008, 03:35 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

seth vidal (skvidal@fedoraproject.org) said:
> > But changing the path solves it without having to touch every (including
> > third-party) packages.
>
> But it's not just about the path. It's also about finding it in scripts,
> among other places.

???? If you want to specify a path, wouldn't you want to specify where it's
always been, and just leave it at that?

Bill

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Old 03-26-2008, 03:38 PM
seth vidal
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 12:35 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> seth vidal (skvidal@fedoraproject.org) said:
> > > But changing the path solves it without having to touch every (including
> > > third-party) packages.
> >
> > But it's not just about the path. It's also about finding it in scripts,
> > among other places.
>
> ???? If you want to specify a path, wouldn't you want to specify where it's
> always been, and just leave it at that?
>

Just to be clear: What aren't we allowed to change b/c it's 'always been
there'?

-sv


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Old 03-26-2008, 03:40 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

seth vidal wrote:

On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 12:03 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Jesse Keating (jkeating@redhat.com) said:

Why not just change the path rather than litter the world with symlinks?

(Also, this is getting offtopic for -desktop rather fast.)

Bringing it to fedora-devel. The idea is that you'd only be 'littered'
with symlinks if you install an FHS compat package. Otherwise your
stuff just lives happily in (/usr)/bin.

But changing the path solves it without having to touch every (including
third-party) packages.


But it's not just about the path. It's also about finding it in scripts,
among other places.


Why not simplify the world and put everything in /bin and /usr/bin,
making /sbin and /usr/sbin symlinks for backwards compatibility?
Whatever purpose someone thought the s- versions might have ever served
flies out the window when the the administrator and the only user are
one and the same person who is just confused by sometimes having
commands work and sometimes not.


--
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Old 03-26-2008, 03:48 PM
"Jonathan Underwood"
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

On 26/03/2008, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:
> seth vidal wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 12:03 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> >> Jesse Keating (jkeating@redhat.com) said:
> >>>> Why not just change the path rather than litter the world with symlinks?
> >>>>
> >>>> (Also, this is getting offtopic for -desktop rather fast.)
> >>> Bringing it to fedora-devel. The idea is that you'd only be 'littered'
> >>> with symlinks if you install an FHS compat package. Otherwise your
> >>> stuff just lives happily in (/usr)/bin.
> >> But changing the path solves it without having to touch every (including
> >> third-party) packages.
> >
> > But it's not just about the path. It's also about finding it in scripts,
> > among other places.
>
>
> Why not simplify the world and put everything in /bin and /usr/bin,
> making /sbin and /usr/sbin symlinks for backwards compatibility?
> Whatever purpose someone thought the s- versions might have ever served
> flies out the window when the the administrator and the only user are
> one and the same person who is just confused by sometimes having
> commands work and sometimes not.

Seems entirely reasonable.

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Old 03-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

seth vidal (skvidal@fedoraproject.org) said:
> > > But it's not just about the path. It's also about finding it in scripts,
> > > among other places.
> >
> > ???? If you want to specify a path, wouldn't you want to specify where it's
> > always been, and just leave it at that?
>
> Just to be clear: What aren't we allowed to change b/c it's 'always been
> there'?

Screw 'what aren't we allowed to change'.

I'm asking why rebuilding 500 packages to move files and adding more packages
that add symlinks makes more sense than editing two lines in the setup package.

Bill

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Old 03-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

Jonathan Underwood (jonathan.underwood@gmail.com) said:
> > Why not simplify the world and put everything in /bin and /usr/bin,
> > making /sbin and /usr/sbin symlinks for backwards compatibility?
> > Whatever purpose someone thought the s- versions might have ever served
> > flies out the window when the the administrator and the only user are
> > one and the same person who is just confused by sometimes having
> > commands work and sometimes not.
>
> Seems entirely reasonable.

Because it's changing 500 packages, and you can't do the replacement
sanely in RPM anyway.

Bill

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Old 03-26-2008, 04:17 PM
"Jonathan Underwood"
 
Default few ideas how to make fedora better as a desktop

On 26/03/2008, Bill Nottingham <notting@redhat.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Underwood (jonathan.underwood@gmail.com) said:
> > > Why not simplify the world and put everything in /bin and /usr/bin,
> > > making /sbin and /usr/sbin symlinks for backwards compatibility?
> > > Whatever purpose someone thought the s- versions might have ever served
> > > flies out the window when the the administrator and the only user are
> > > one and the same person who is just confused by sometimes having
> > > commands work and sometimes not.
> >
> > Seems entirely reasonable.
>
>
> Because it's changing 500 packages, and you can't do the replacement
> sanely in RPM anyway.

Surely a large proportion of those 500 packages will be rebuilt in the
F-10 release cycle anyway? However, I don't understand the second
point you make there?

J.

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