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Old 02-12-2008, 04:54 PM
Gian Paolo Mureddu
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

Some time ago I posted to the Marketing list about a little "test" I was
performing with some friends and family who are (or rather were) not
familiar with Linux or Fedora at all, and were exposed to the LiveCD.
There were some interesting comments and I generated an OOo enabled
LiveCD for them to test with it. At any rate, part of the feedback I got
since then, was about OOo Draw. Basically one of my relatives found out
about it from the main File - New menu entry on the various OOo
programs. Thinking it was part of Impress I got an e-mail asking about
it. The e-mail basically said that if "this draw application was part of
Impress why it had another entry in the File - New menu. I then
proceeded to explain that OOo draw is another application, and was
immediately caught off guard when I got a prompt reply of "How come,
then that it doesn't have an applications menu entry, if it is a full
blown app of its own, then?" And that's why I ask here, since I double
checked on my four other Fedora machines (one desktop running F8,
another running F7, yet another running F9 alpha and a laptop with F8),
and indeed openoffice.org-draw is installed, but there is no menu entry
for the application, even though there is the .desktop file
/usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in
either the Office or Graphics applications menus?

Thanks in advance.

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Old 02-13-2008, 05:26 PM
Caolan McNamara
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> about OOo Draw.
...
> /usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in
> either the Office or Graphics applications menus?

Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it
(and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then
UI/UX-team.

C.

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Old 02-14-2008, 02:24 PM
Michael Knepher
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:26 +0000, Caolan McNamara wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> > about OOo Draw.
> ...
> > /usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in
> > either the Office or Graphics applications menus?
>
> Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it
> (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then
> UI/UX-team.
>

While I would agree about OOo Math, I think the decision to hide Draw is
shortsighted, and based on a misunderstanding of the nature of the
program. It is not analogous to the draw features in MS Office, where
the drawing functionality is entirely subordinate to the context of Word
or Excel. OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing
application, and definitely deserves its own menu item.

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Old 02-14-2008, 07:15 PM
Gian Paolo Mureddu
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

Michael Knepher escribió:

On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:26 +0000, Caolan McNamara wrote:


On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:

about OOo Draw.


...


/usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in
either the Office or Graphics applications menus?


Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it
(and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then
UI/UX-team.




While I would agree about OOo Math, I think the decision to hide Draw is
shortsighted, and based on a misunderstanding of the nature of the
program. It is not analogous to the draw features in MS Office, where
the drawing functionality is entirely subordinate to the context of Word
or Excel. OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing
application, and definitely deserves its own menu item.




Actually that's what one of the users who complained about it told me.
Apparently Draw is very good at making diagrams, where Inkscape is
better suited for other (more advanced) drawing tools. Sure you can
still make diagrams in Inkscape, but apparently it is fairly easy to do
them in Draw. I think it would be a good idea to give Draw its own menu
entry. Now as to per that bugzilla "convention" the name for it should
only be "Draw!" or "Drawing Tool" and to avoid confusion maybe a comment
along the lines of "A document centric drawing tool, that uses the open
document format" or some such.


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Old 02-15-2008, 06:04 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
Actually that's what one of the users who complained about it told me.
Apparently Draw is very good at making diagrams, where Inkscape is
better suited for other (more advanced) drawing tools. Sure you can
still make diagrams in Inkscape, but apparently it is fairly easy to do
them in Draw. I think it would be a good idea to give Draw its own menu
entry. Now as to per that bugzilla "convention" the name for it should
only be "Draw!" or "Drawing Tool" and to avoid confusion maybe a comment
along the lines of "A document centric drawing tool, that uses the open
document format" or some such.


If is any worth into it, when the decision was made Inkscape was not
part of Fedora *Core* and neither now is part of the default install on
the majority of Fedora spins, that leave us with only one drawing
application in the default install, OOo Draw, which is not included in
any menu, so very un-discoverable by common users.
So i think either install Inkscape by default (in the spins related to
the desktop usage) or put Draw in the menu.


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Old 02-15-2008, 09:18 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro> wrote:
> If is any worth into it, when the decision was made Inkscape was not
> part of Fedora *Core* and neither now is part of the default install on
> the majority of Fedora spins, that leave us with only one drawing
> application in the default install, OOo Draw, which is not included in
> any menu, so very un-discoverable by common users.
> So i think either install Inkscape by default (in the spins related to
> the desktop usage) or put Draw in the menu.

Even with Inkscape installed, I still make use of OODraw when I'm
working on things that I know I'm going to use later in an OO
presentation. I've built up a set of stock diagrams and junk that way
to reuse. In fact I've made a panel launcher for oodraw just to make
it easy to access.

-jef

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Old 02-16-2008, 04:57 AM
Gian Paolo Mureddu
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of
the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be
better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it
available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an
update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should
we file an RFE in bugzilla?


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Old 02-18-2008, 10:23 AM
David Jansen
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:57:09PM -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of
> the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be
> better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it
> available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an
> update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should we
> file an RFE in bugzilla?

Enabling the menu item in upcoming versions or updates sounds like a
good idea (pushing an update for F7 and F8 just to enable teh menu item
sounds like overkill though).

On a related note: OpenOffice(.org) has become a well-known name. I
understand the sentiment of having functional names like "Word
Processor" in the menu, but perhaps the tooltip displayed from the menu
couls at least mention that this is OpenOffice. A lot of other programs,
like Firefox, Evolution, Gnumeric etc have their name included
somewhere, either directly in the menu, or in the tooltip.

David Jansen

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Old 03-24-2008, 07:36 PM
Valent Turkovic
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

Michael Knepher wrote:

OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing
application, and definitely deserves its own menu item.



+1

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Old 03-24-2008, 07:44 PM
Caolan McNamara
 
Default OOo Draw in the menus

On Mon, 2008-03-24 at 21:36 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> Michael Knepher wrote:
> > OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing
> > application, and definitely deserves its own menu item.

It should already be in the menus in rawhide since >= 2.4.0-10.1

C.

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