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Old 06-08-2011, 03:42 PM
Elad
 
Default Space for wallpapers in Fedora 16

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler@chello.at> wrote:

Máirín Duffy wrote:

> The Fedora design team had a meeting today for Fedora 16 planning and

> we'd like to try for a four-wallpaper pack for Fedora 16. (We can

> provide a slideshow XML file for GNOME, if KDE / XFCE / LXDE support

> something like slideshows let us know and we can try to provide it).

>

> We wanted to provide a heads up so that you could account for the space

> early on in the cycle if you wanted all of the wallpapers for your spin;

> in the past when we've done a slideshow set it has caused last-minute

> space issues: we'd very much like to avoid that.



I'm sorry for raining on your parade again, but I really don't think this is

a good idea. I'd prefer very much to use the available limited space for

software than for wallpapers!



The KDE spin was at 692 MiB for Fedora 15 and our plan is to add Kamoso

(webcam application, newly released and reviewed) and at least one backup

solution for Fedora 16. It all has to fit into 700 MiB. That means, we're

basically already out of space. We may have to scale back our plans due to

the usual package size growth we've been seeing at each release anyway, it'd

be sad if wallpapers were the issue.



I realize and understand that a good-looking default wallpaper is a very

important part of the user experience. I just don't think we need 4 of them

installed by default. Users can easily replace their wallpaper anyway. I

think it'd be a much better idea to have one beautiful default wallpaper and

focus on polishing that, also because schedules are tight (as you have

noticed in previous release cycles).



* * * *Kevin Kofler



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Why don't you try to cut down on some useless software instead? a lot of un-needed software is installed by default, eg. sendmail. you could simply don't install sendmail by default and save 1.5MB! And I'm sure there is more useless software you can remove to make some space for wallpapers and other *useful* software.

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Old 06-08-2011, 09:53 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Space for wallpapers in Fedora 16

On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 11:51 +0000, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> yep, we have a support for slideshow in Plasma. But it depends if it's just
> slideshow or time based wp change as we saw before in Gnome. I was thinking
> about implemnting it to Plasma but after aseigo's review of the old one Gnome
> XML file I decided better not do it. Even aseigo is still waiting for
> implementation

We were thinking it would just be a simple slideshow. No time-based
transition effects.

> Just one thing - as Kevin pointed out - the extended slideshow wps should be in
> separate subpackage and the default package should be the single one due to live
> image space constraints. Especially for Plasma spin.

Okay, shipping four wallpapers by default was not a problem in earlier
Fedoras when we've done this before (at least on the desktop spin.) We
did ship the four wallpapers, which were the same wallpaper with
different colorations. Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 are some examples of this.
We didn't know it would be a problem if we gave advance notice; it seems
even with advance notice it's a problem, so I guess we have no choice -
one wallpaper it is then.

> Another important thing is - we need some simple designs. I really like Fedora
> designs as these aren't usually the boring abstract something like in other
> distros but today with Gnome Shell, the Plasma Netbook brother (I'm surprised
> how similar these two are, very nice for touchable netbooks) - the desktop now
> serves for activities (both Shell and Plasma ones). The Plasma Active is going
> to be even more using the desktop... So this is something you, as Design team
> should consider. But still I hope we can have amazing designs, not just colorful
> spits

This is a good point, but this is probably not the appropriate thread to
bring that up. Please start a new thread on the design-team list for
this or you can of course provide artists feedback directly on the
artboard - thanks!

~m

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Old 06-08-2011, 09:53 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Space for wallpapers in Fedora 16

On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 11:51 +0000, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> yep, we have a support for slideshow in Plasma. But it depends if it's just
> slideshow or time based wp change as we saw before in Gnome. I was thinking
> about implemnting it to Plasma but after aseigo's review of the old one Gnome
> XML file I decided better not do it. Even aseigo is still waiting for
> implementation

We were thinking it would just be a simple slideshow. No time-based
transition effects.

> Just one thing - as Kevin pointed out - the extended slideshow wps should be in
> separate subpackage and the default package should be the single one due to live
> image space constraints. Especially for Plasma spin.

Okay, shipping four wallpapers by default was not a problem in earlier
Fedoras when we've done this before (at least on the desktop spin.) We
did ship the four wallpapers, which were the same wallpaper with
different colorations. Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 are some examples of this.
We didn't know it would be a problem if we gave advance notice; it seems
even with advance notice it's a problem, so I guess we have no choice -
one wallpaper it is then.

> Another important thing is - we need some simple designs. I really like Fedora
> designs as these aren't usually the boring abstract something like in other
> distros but today with Gnome Shell, the Plasma Netbook brother (I'm surprised
> how similar these two are, very nice for touchable netbooks) - the desktop now
> serves for activities (both Shell and Plasma ones). The Plasma Active is going
> to be even more using the desktop... So this is something you, as Design team
> should consider. But still I hope we can have amazing designs, not just colorful
> spits

This is a good point, but this is probably not the appropriate thread to
bring that up. Please start a new thread on the design-team list for
this or you can of course provide artists feedback directly on the
artboard - thanks!

~m

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Old 06-09-2011, 02:34 AM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Space for wallpapers in Fedora 16

On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 17:53:25 -0400,
Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> Okay, shipping four wallpapers by default was not a problem in earlier
> Fedoras when we've done this before (at least on the desktop spin.) We
> did ship the four wallpapers, which were the same wallpaper with
> different colorations. Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 are some examples of this.
> We didn't know it would be a problem if we gave advance notice; it seems
> even with advance notice it's a problem, so I guess we have no choice -
> one wallpaper it is then.

Some of the other spins aren't currently that tight on space. So if it is
OK to do it differently on different spins, then maybe many of the
other spins could use the slide show and the space constrained ones
could use a single wallpaper.
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:34 AM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Space for wallpapers in Fedora 16

On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 17:53:25 -0400,
Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> Okay, shipping four wallpapers by default was not a problem in earlier
> Fedoras when we've done this before (at least on the desktop spin.) We
> did ship the four wallpapers, which were the same wallpaper with
> different colorations. Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 are some examples of this.
> We didn't know it would be a problem if we gave advance notice; it seems
> even with advance notice it's a problem, so I guess we have no choice -
> one wallpaper it is then.

Some of the other spins aren't currently that tight on space. So if it is
OK to do it differently on different spins, then maybe many of the
other spins could use the slide show and the space constrained ones
could use a single wallpaper.
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:01 AM
Zoltan Hoppar
 
Default Space for wallpapers in Fedora 16

Hi Guys,

I think this deserves an new search for more ninjas as we did it
earlier, or better said an contest - where we tell to the community
that is an huge possibility. What do you think?

Zoltan

2011/6/9 Bruno Wolff III <bruno@wolff.to>:
> On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 17:53:25 -0400,
> *Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, shipping four wallpapers by default was not a problem in earlier
>> Fedoras when we've done this before (at least on the desktop spin.) We
>> did ship the four wallpapers, which were the same wallpaper with
>> different colorations. Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 are some examples of this.
>> We didn't know it would be a problem if we gave advance notice; it seems
>> even with advance notice it's a problem, so I guess we have no choice -
>> one wallpaper it is then.
>
> Some of the other spins aren't currently that tight on space. So if it is
> OK to do it differently on different spins, then maybe many of the
> other spins could use the slide show and the space constrained ones
> could use a single wallpaper.
> --
> desktop mailing list
> desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
>



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Old 06-09-2011, 07:57 AM
Jaroslav Reznik
 
Default Space for wallpapers in Fedora 16

On Wednesday, June 08, 2011 11:53:25 PM MĂĄirĂ*n Duffy wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 11:51 +0000, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> > yep, we have a support for slideshow in Plasma. But it depends if it's
> > just slideshow or time based wp change as we saw before in Gnome. I was
> > thinking about implemnting it to Plasma but after aseigo's review of the
> > old one Gnome XML file I decided better not do it. Even aseigo is still
> > waiting for implementation
>
> We were thinking it would just be a simple slideshow. No time-based
> transition effects.

Ok. This is not a problem to set it up.

> > Just one thing - as Kevin pointed out - the extended slideshow wps should
> > be in separate subpackage and the default package should be the single
> > one due to live image space constraints. Especially for Plasma spin.
>
> Okay, shipping four wallpapers by default was not a problem in earlier
> Fedoras when we've done this before (at least on the desktop spin.) We
> did ship the four wallpapers, which were the same wallpaper with
> different colorations. Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 are some examples of this.
> We didn't know it would be a problem if we gave advance notice; it seems
> even with advance notice it's a problem, so I guess we have no choice -
> one wallpaper it is then.

I'm not saying it's a problem. Just the solution should be - to have one
"master" wallpaper packaged in a standalone subpackage (and probably used for
GDM/KDM/KSplash) and package the rest slideshow in the another subpackage. Spins
that have a spare space can ship base one wp package + slides package (even 2G
Plasma spin!!!). Regular Plasma spin can ship just the base one. And we will see
- maybe we will have some space available and we could ship all - can't say for
sure now. But I still prefer a little bit more ship software users are asking us
to include in live image.

> > Another important thing is - we need some simple designs. I really like
> > Fedora designs as these aren't usually the boring abstract something
> > like in other distros but today with Gnome Shell, the Plasma Netbook
> > brother (I'm surprised how similar these two are, very nice for
> > touchable netbooks) - the desktop now serves for activities (both Shell
> > and Plasma ones). The Plasma Active is going to be even more using the
> > desktop... So this is something you, as Design team should consider. But
> > still I hope we can have amazing designs, not just colorful spits
>
> This is a good point, but this is probably not the appropriate thread to
> bring that up. Please start a new thread on the design-team list for
> this or you can of course provide artists feedback directly on the
> artboard - thanks!

Yeah, I know it wasn't the best place to mix it but it's still somehow related
to the topics. The base wp could be the simple one for example, slideshow could
be more artistic like - so probably not the default one even for smaller spins?
Just and idea.

Jaroslav

> ~m

--
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Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno

Office: +420 532 294 275
Mobile: +420 602 797 774
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