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Old 06-06-2011, 11:08 AM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Service enabled by default

I think it's time for the Gnome desktop team to revisit and review which
services are enabled by default on the livecd/usb and enable only those
that benefit the novice desktop end user.

Alot of services are enabled by default that are aimed at enterprise
users and to some extend enterprise hardware usages which would never be
used on a regular desktop/tablet/notebook pc like for example fcoe,
lldpad, iscsi, iscsid, mdmonitor etc. which administrators should enable
encase they use it in their enterprise environment.

A bit of discussion about this is happening in bug 707553

Thanks

JBG
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:27 AM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Service enabled by default

On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 11:08:10 +0000,
""Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"" <johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's time for the Gnome desktop team to revisit and review which
> services are enabled by default on the livecd/usb and enable only those
> that benefit the novice desktop end user.
>
> Alot of services are enabled by default that are aimed at enterprise
> users and to some extend enterprise hardware usages which would never be
> used on a regular desktop/tablet/notebook pc like for example fcoe,
> lldpad, iscsi, iscsid, mdmonitor etc. which administrators should enable
> encase they use it in their enterprise environment.
>
> A bit of discussion about this is happening in bug 707553

For some of these, the issue is more about detecting the attached hardware
and only enabling the services on install that are actually usable.
When running as a live image, those services should be enabled so that
they can use the hardware if it is present.
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:55 AM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Service enabled by default

On 06/06/2011 11:27 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:


On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 11:08:10 +0000,
""Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"" <johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:


> I think it's time for the Gnome desktop team to revisit and review which
> services are enabled by default on the livecd/usb and enable only those
> that benefit the novice desktop end user.
>
> Alot of services are enabled by default that are aimed at enterprise
> users and to some extend enterprise hardware usages which would never be
> used on a regular desktop/tablet/notebook pc like for example fcoe,
> lldpad, iscsi, iscsid, mdmonitor etc. which administrators should enable
> encase they use it in their enterprise environment.
>
> A bit of discussion about this is happening in bug 707553


For some of these, the issue is more about detecting the attached hardware
and only enabling the services on install that are actually usable.





That would be the best scenario..





When running as a live image, those services should be enabled so that
they can use the hardware if it is present.





Not really from my pov.



I'm not seeing anyone in enterprise environment with enterprise
hardware using a livecd/usb and if they are they would not be using
fcoe lldpad, iscsi, iscsid,
mdmonitor etc for ( a one time ) live bootup and even if they did
they would possess the knowledge of enable it in that case .



I'm not aware of anyone that uses a livecd/usb on a hardware with
fcoe lldpad, iscsi, iscsid,
mdmonitor ( server hw ).



I guess it all falls down to who are we targeting with the
livecd/usb.



JBG



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Old 06-06-2011, 12:08 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Service enabled by default

On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 11:55:21 +0000,
""Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"" <johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not really from my pov.
>
> I'm not seeing anyone in enterprise environment with enterprise
> hardware using a livecd/usb and if they are they would not be using
> fcoe lldpad, iscsi, iscsid, mdmonitor etc for ( a one time ) live
> bootup and even if they did they would possess the knowledge of
> enable it in that case .
>
> I'm not aware of anyone that uses a livecd/usb on a hardware with
> fcoe lldpad, iscsi, iscsid, mdmonitor ( server hw ).
>
> I guess it all falls down to who are we targeting with the livecd/usb.

I think it is a bad idea for live images to not just work. I wouldn't
expect there to be a lot of use on enterprise hardware, but for doing
recovery people might want to do this.

The real problem with the services listed was that a few use a significant
amount of resources, even when the hardware to be supported isn't present.
I think the effort would be better spent addressing that, rather than
not supporting that hardware on live images.

Properly handling whether the services should be on or off during install
will take significant work, but maybe less than fixing the real problem.
The installs are done differently than normal installs, so we can't
directly use the method used for normal installs for live installs.
But presumably we could borrow ideas from that code.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:50 PM
Elad
 
Default Service enabled by default

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Bruno Wolff III <bruno@wolff.to> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2011 at 11:08:10 +0000,
> *""Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"" <johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think it's time for the Gnome desktop team to revisit and review which
>> services are enabled by default on the livecd/usb and enable only those
>> that benefit the novice desktop end user.
>>
>> Alot of services are enabled by default that are aimed at enterprise
>> users and to some extend enterprise hardware usages which would never be
>> used on a regular desktop/tablet/notebook pc like for example fcoe,
>> lldpad, iscsi, iscsid, mdmonitor etc. which administrators should enable
>> encase they use it in their enterprise environment.
>>
>> A bit of discussion about this is happening in bug 707553
>
> For some of these, the issue is more about detecting the attached hardware
> and only enabling the services on install that are actually usable.
> When running as a live image, those services should be enabled so that
> they can use the hardware if it is present.
> --
> desktop mailing list
> desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
>
Live media does not make sense for servers at all. When you install a
server, you want to control exactly what is going to be installed,
which is impossible with live media.
Furthermore, the default live media is the Desktop spin, which means -
it is for desktop! not servers! You can suggest a server spin if you
want.

Most desktop users are not enterprise users, and enterprise users are
skilled enough to enable the services they need themselves or create
their own live media with the packages and configurations they need
for their environment.

I don't see any reason for starting these services. AFAIK the system
will boot properly without them on any hardware, so users who has such
hardware can simply run su -c 'systemctl start something.service', and
that's it.
What I mean is, that those services can be *installed* by default on
the live cd, but I see no reason for them to be *enabled* by default
on the live media or on an installation from the livecd.

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Old 06-06-2011, 01:38 PM
Elad
 
Default Service enabled by default

2011/6/6 "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" <johannbg@gmail.com>:
> On 06/06/2011 12:50 PM, Elad wrote:
>
> What I mean is, that those services can be *installed* by default on
> the live cd, but I see no reason for them to be *enabled* by default
> on the live media or on an installation from the livecd.
>
> I would think the ideal place we want to be in is..
>
> If hw is present start service if not dont.
>
> Like for example there is no point in starting bluetooth, pcscd, fcoe,
> lldpad, iscsi, iscsid, mdmonitor cups etc. if the relevant hw is not
> detected and present on the installed or running system.
>
Cups is needed for network printers, which you can't detect on boot.
Starting cups on demand whenever an app wants to access a printer (eg
when you open the print dialog in libreoffice) might be a good idea.
> ntp and ntpdate should just be enabled and started if the end user has
> configured it to do so in Firstboot ( arguable this should be removed from
> firstboot and be handled only in relevant application in the DE ) or System
> settings --> Date and Time in Gnome or via system-config-date.
>
> All the NFS related services along with avahi should default to off as well
> and only be activated and enabled if the end user has configured it to do so
> either manually or via cli or in some app.
>
> Fixing this along with defaulting to btrfs and or ext4 and turning of
> related service surrounding lvm should reduce the boot time to ca <10s range
> on a rotating media thus delivering better experience to the novice end
> user.
>
> Anaconda or Firstboot should also turn off the live system related services
> after being run.
>
> JBG
>
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>



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