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Old 04-26-2011, 08:15 AM
Alexander Volovics
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

I have been reading some posts here and see that I am
pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue.
But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".


Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.

So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do
with some more configurability options and then it would also
be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh.
(I am making the following remarks under the proviso that
I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is
included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed
to the mix).

Are there any plans to increase desktop configurability in Gnome 3.

For example:

- I would like to be able to change the color of the top bar
The lid of my laptop is a shiny black and the addition of the
black colored top bar gives the desktop an even more funereal
appearance (and makes the bar hard to see/read).

- I would like to be able to REMOVE icons from applications
overviews under 'Applications' in the 'Activities overview'.

First I would like to remove ALL icons from the 'All' category.
* This overview is not really necessary because the same
icons are included under the other categories 'System Tools',
'Accessories', 'Graphics', etc.
* Furthermore given the stupid and unhandy 16:9 laptop screens you
have to scroll to see them all so having all icons available does
not really save time/work.
* Finding a particular icon among this plethora of icons is hardly
easy.
* Given the large size and the sometimes brash colors and
non-uniform design of the icons makes this desktop full of
large blobs not very aesthetically pleasing.

Second I would like to 'prune' the icons listed under the categories
retaining only the icons of the apps I use regularly (possibly
putting some of these 'pruned' icons in some 'Other' category).

- I would like to change the 'top bar' to an 'under bar' and have the
notifications pop up at the top (and why do pop ups and notifications
need to have a black background).

Personally I find these 'wishes' very reasonable and not detracting
from the design and usability of Gnome 3.
I could even understand the need to concentrate on other issues
at the moment but I do think that tools to make these kinds of
changes are necessary, even for beginning and inexperienced users!

PS Who designs/creates the icons/icon themes.
I find the icons (too) big, brash, glaring and sometimes downright
ugly with no consideration for the overall effect. (for example the
'Games' icons).
It would be much nicer if they were created with an overall effect
in mind using compatible colors and forms (say a sleek blue/silver
theme, uniformly applied).

PS If configuration options as specified above or comparable are
planned for updates or Gnome 3.2 then I would be even more
happy with Gnome 3. If not, is it possible to put forward things
like the above as 'suggestions' for the design team and what is
the best possible place for this.

NB I can not and do not code myself.

Alexander

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Old 04-26-2011, 08:24 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

On 04/26/2011 01:45 PM, Alexander Volovics wrote:
> I have been reading some posts here and see that I am
> pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue.
> But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".
>
>
> Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.
>
> So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do
> with some more configurability options and then it would also
> be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh.
> (I am making the following remarks under the proviso that
> I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is
> included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed
> to the mix).

Whatever Fedora contributed is all upstream. There is no deviations.
You can post any feedback to GNOME Shell list

http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list

Rahul
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:13 PM
Michael Knepher
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 10:15 +0200, Alexander Volovics wrote:
> I have been reading some posts here and see that I am
> pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue.
> But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".
>
>
> Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.
>
> So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do
> with some more configurability options and then it would also
> be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh.
> (I am making the following remarks under the proviso that
> I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is
> included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed
> to the mix).
>
> Are there any plans to increase desktop configurability in Gnome 3.

No official configuration tools will be forthcoming for some time (if at
all). With a little tinkering, however, it is possible to change the
appearance. See
http://blog.fpmurphy.com/2011/03/customizing-the-gnome-3-shell.html
for a good overview. You can also install gnome-tweak-tool and
gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme and change the entire theme. A good
source for alternative themes is
http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982

Gnome-tweak-tool will also allow you to change the icon theme.

Most indications are that there is a good chance that the way things
work internally may change in 3.2, so developers are warning that
extensions that work now may not work with 3.2. Whether they plan to
stabilize things and at least make gnome-shell more friendly for
customization (if not officially supporting it) remains to be seen.

> For example:
>
> - I would like to be able to change the color of the top bar
> The lid of my laptop is a shiny black and the addition of the
> black colored top bar gives the desktop an even more funereal
> appearance (and makes the bar hard to see/read).
>
> - I would like to be able to REMOVE icons from applications
> overviews under 'Applications' in the 'Activities overview'.

For hiding app icons, the alacarte menu editor should still work with
gnome-shell. However, there is no way to change the current behavior of
defaulting to "all" applications in the overlay, and short of someone
writing an extension, not something that will change any time soon.

> First I would like to remove ALL icons from the 'All' category.
> * This overview is not really necessary because the same
> icons are included under the other categories 'System Tools',
> 'Accessories', 'Graphics', etc.
> * Furthermore given the stupid and unhandy 16:9 laptop screens you
> have to scroll to see them all so having all icons available does
> not really save time/work.
> * Finding a particular icon among this plethora of icons is hardly
> easy.
> * Given the large size and the sometimes brash colors and
> non-uniform design of the icons makes this desktop full of
> large blobs not very aesthetically pleasing.
>
> Second I would like to 'prune' the icons listed under the categories
> retaining only the icons of the apps I use regularly (possibly
> putting some of these 'pruned' icons in some 'Other' category).
>
> - I would like to change the 'top bar' to an 'under bar' and have the
> notifications pop up at the top (and why do pop ups and notifications
> need to have a black background).
>
> Personally I find these 'wishes' very reasonable and not detracting
> from the design and usability of Gnome 3.
> I could even understand the need to concentrate on other issues
> at the moment but I do think that tools to make these kinds of
> changes are necessary, even for beginning and inexperienced users!
>
> PS Who designs/creates the icons/icon themes.
> I find the icons (too) big, brash, glaring and sometimes downright
> ugly with no consideration for the overall effect. (for example the
> 'Games' icons).
> It would be much nicer if they were created with an overall effect
> in mind using compatible colors and forms (say a sleek blue/silver
> theme, uniformly applied).

Even though you may not be a coder, if you have strong opinions about
the default icon set, and can present a reasonable argument for and
examples of alternatives, you may want to look at getting involved with
the gnome design team.

>
> PS If configuration options as specified above or comparable are
> planned for updates or Gnome 3.2 then I would be even more
> happy with Gnome 3. If not, is it possible to put forward things
> like the above as 'suggestions' for the design team and what is
> the best possible place for this.
>
> NB I can not and do not code myself.
>
> Alexander
>


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Old 04-27-2011, 07:50 AM
Timur Kristóf
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

Hello Alexander,

There was a thread about these things on this list a couple of days ago,
called "customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora
15", you may want to read that.

We don't know yet if Gnome upstream has any plans of making these
customizations official, but you can customize your Gnome shell today.
Install the packages gnome-tweak-tool and
gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme. Then you can just grab a theme of
your liking from the http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982
page (there are some lighter ones like Elementary or Smooth Inset) and
apply them with the tool.

Cheers,
Timur

On 04/26/2011 10:15 AM, Alexander Volovics wrote:
> I have been reading some posts here and see that I am
> pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue.
> But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".
>
>
> Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.
>
> So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do
> with some more configurability options and then it would also
> be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh.
> (I am making the following remarks under the proviso that
> I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is
> included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed
> to the mix).
>
> Are there any plans to increase desktop configurability in Gnome 3.
>
> For example:
>
> - I would like to be able to change the color of the top bar
> The lid of my laptop is a shiny black and the addition of the
> black colored top bar gives the desktop an even more funereal
> appearance (and makes the bar hard to see/read).
>
> - I would like to be able to REMOVE icons from applications
> overviews under 'Applications' in the 'Activities overview'.
>
> First I would like to remove ALL icons from the 'All' category.
> * This overview is not really necessary because the same
> icons are included under the other categories 'System Tools',
> 'Accessories', 'Graphics', etc.
> * Furthermore given the stupid and unhandy 16:9 laptop screens you
> have to scroll to see them all so having all icons available does
> not really save time/work.
> * Finding a particular icon among this plethora of icons is hardly
> easy.
> * Given the large size and the sometimes brash colors and
> non-uniform design of the icons makes this desktop full of
> large blobs not very aesthetically pleasing.
>
> Second I would like to 'prune' the icons listed under the categories
> retaining only the icons of the apps I use regularly (possibly
> putting some of these 'pruned' icons in some 'Other' category).
>
> - I would like to change the 'top bar' to an 'under bar' and have the
> notifications pop up at the top (and why do pop ups and notifications
> need to have a black background).
>
> Personally I find these 'wishes' very reasonable and not detracting
> from the design and usability of Gnome 3.
> I could even understand the need to concentrate on other issues
> at the moment but I do think that tools to make these kinds of
> changes are necessary, even for beginning and inexperienced users!
>
> PS Who designs/creates the icons/icon themes.
> I find the icons (too) big, brash, glaring and sometimes downright
> ugly with no consideration for the overall effect. (for example the
> 'Games' icons).
> It would be much nicer if they were created with an overall effect
> in mind using compatible colors and forms (say a sleek blue/silver
> theme, uniformly applied).
>
> PS If configuration options as specified above or comparable are
> planned for updates or Gnome 3.2 then I would be even more
> happy with Gnome 3. If not, is it possible to put forward things
> like the above as 'suggestions' for the design team and what is
> the best possible place for this.
>
> NB I can not and do not code myself.
>
> Alexander
>

--
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:57 AM
Alexander Volovics
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:13:12AM -0700, Michael Knepher wrote:

> No official configuration tools will be forthcoming for some time (if at
> all). With a little tinkering, however, it is possible to change the
> appearance. See
> http://blog.fpmurphy.com/2011/03/customizing-the-gnome-3-shell.html
> for a good overview. You can also install gnome-tweak-tool and
> gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme and change the entire theme. A good
> source for alternative themes is
> http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982
>
> Gnome-tweak-tool will also allow you to change the icon theme.
>
> Most indications are that there is a good chance that the way things
> work internally may change in 3.2, so developers are warning that
> extensions that work now may not work with 3.2. Whether they plan to
> stabilize things and at least make gnome-shell more friendly for
> customization (if not officially supporting it) remains to be seen.

Thanks for the information. I will try a 'little/lot' of tinkering.
Sort of like in my blackbox/fluxbox days again.

Though I don't feel happy about it at all. The developers are (and
have been) doing great work (the overall concept of gnome 3 is
innovative and promising) but are'nt they getting just a tiny bit
too authoritative and dictatorial: opensource should be about
freedom and choice. And the choice should not only be 'you can still
choose another window manager'.

Gnome 2.3 had quite a lot of choice. For example when they added a
second panel (do they have laptops with 5:4 format screens?) you
could remove it, hide it, or put the panels at the sides.
(I removed it).

> For hiding app icons, the alacarte menu editor should still work with
> gnome-shell.

It does (sort of).

Alexander

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Old 04-28-2011, 08:57 AM
Alexander Volovics
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 09:50:50AM +0200, Timur Kristóf wrote:

> There was a thread about these things on this list a couple of days ago,
> called "customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora
> 15", you may want to read that.

Thanks for the reply. I had already read this thread.

> We don't know yet if Gnome upstream has any plans of making these
> customizations official, but you can customize your Gnome shell today.
> Install the packages gnome-tweak-tool and
> gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme. Then you can just grab a theme of
> your liking from the http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982
> page (there are some lighter ones like Elementary or Smooth Inset) and
> apply them with the tool.

I am looking into this.

Alexander

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Old 04-28-2011, 10:17 AM
Rui Tiago Cação Matos
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

On 28 April 2011 09:57, Alexander Volovics <a.volovic@upcmail.nl> wrote:
> Though I don't feel happy about it at all. The developers are (and
> have been) doing great work (the overall concept of gnome 3 is
> innovative and promising) but are'nt they getting just a tiny bit
> too authoritative and dictatorial: opensource should be about
> freedom and choice. And the choice should not only be 'you can still
> choose another window manager'.

No. The freedom (and the choices you have therefrom) is about the
code's license. How you run a specific project (i.e. what goes in the
official source code tree) is a different thing. Most (every?)
successful project runs some form of a meritocracy. Read on it.

Rui
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Alexander Volovics
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:17:36AM +0100, Rui Tiago Cação Matos wrote:

> > Though I don't feel happy about it at all. The developers are (and
> > have been) doing great work (the overall concept of gnome 3 is
> > innovative and promising) but are'nt they getting just a tiny bit
> > too authoritative and dictatorial: opensource should be about
> > freedom and choice. And the choice should not only be 'you can still
> > choose another window manager'.

> No. The freedom (and the choices you have therefrom) is about the
> code's license. How you run a specific project (i.e. what goes in the
> official source code tree) is a different thing. Most (every?)
> successful project runs some form of a meritocracy. Read on it.

Strictly speaking you are right. I was thinking more of
the fact that most licenses allow you to change or add
to the code for private use or to give it back to the
community.

And I could not care less if they run a theocracy,
a timocracy or a kleptocracy while designing and
implementing the project. Probably some tight knit
group is needed to do such work successfully but I still
think that at some point a 'feedback channel' should
be open, and not only to the in-crowd.
You are not making a painting or a sculpture but an
object used on a daily bases by millions of people
who would at the very least like to make some slight
changes to suit their tastes and needs.

I fist started using linux on a regular basis in 1994/1995
with the appearance of Red Hat Linux 1. Back then a lot of
things 'under the hood' were relatively 'uncomplicated'.
I had a pretty good idea how things worked and interacted.
I could even occasionally change a script to suit my needs.

With the enormous progress made since then I have only
a very hazy idea of what actually happens and I am completely
dependent on primary and secondary sources for instructions
and tools to implement any changes.

From all that I have heard and read the primary concern
of the developers seems to be the workability of the
design with scant attention being payed to configurability.
The least they could do is provide 'handles' so that the
distro's or secondary sources could provide tools easily.
And I hope that this is going to happen (or is happening now).

Even architects work to user specifications and keep
the needs and wishes of inhabitants in mind.

Alexander

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Old 04-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Alexander Volovics
 
Default fed 15 + gnome 3 works nice, but ...

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:17:36AM +0100, Rui Tiago Cação Matos wrote:

> > Though I don't feel happy about it at all. The developers are (and
> > have been) doing great work (the overall concept of gnome 3 is
> > innovative and promising) but are'nt they getting just a tiny bit
> > too authoritative and dictatorial: opensource should be about
> > freedom and choice. And the choice should not only be 'you can still
> > choose another window manager'.

> No. The freedom (and the choices you have therefrom) is about the
> code's license. How you run a specific project (i.e. what goes in the
> official source code tree) is a different thing. Most (every?)
> successful project runs some form of a meritocracy. Read on it.

Strictly speaking you are right. I was thinking more of
the fact that most licenses allow you to change or add
to the code for private use or to give it back to the
community.

And I could not care less if they run a theocracy,
a timocracy or a kleptocracy while designing and
implementing the project. Probably some tight knit
group is needed to do such work successfully but I still
think that at some point a 'feedback channel' should
be open, and not only to the in-crowd.
You are not making a painting or a sculpture but an
object used on a daily bases by millions of people
who would at the very least like to make some slight
changes to suit their tastes and needs.

I fist started using linux on a regular basis in 1994/1995
with the appearance of Red Hat Linux 1. Back then a lot of
things 'under the hood' were relatively 'uncomplicated'.
I had a pretty good idea how things worked and interacted.
I could even occasionally change a script to suit my needs.

With the enormous progress made since then I have only
a very hazy idea of what actually happens and I am completely
dependent on primary and secondary sources for instructions
and tools to implement any changes.

From all that I have heard and read the primary concern
of the developers seems to be the workability of the
design with scant attention being payed to configurability.
The least they could do is provide 'handles' so that the
distro's or secondary sources could provide tools easily.
And I hope that this is going to happen (or is happening now).

Even architects work to user specifications and keep
the needs and wishes of inhabitants in mind.

Alexander

--
desktop mailing list
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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