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Old 02-08-2011, 08:37 PM
James Laska
 
Default GNOME3 feature page - updated scoped and comments

Greetings folks,

A few weeks back Matthias, Owen and several others +AFs-1+AF0 contributed to a
discussion geared towards better understanding the upstream GNOME3
release criteria, and how we can best adjust expectations for the
upcoming 3.0 and F15 releases. I just merged the results of our
discussion into the GNOME3 Fedora feature page. For a diff, see +AFs-2+AF0.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome3

The notable changes I'd like to call out are ...

+AD0 Scope +AD0
The previous section listed many development and packaging milestones.
Using that information, it was hard to visualize the high-level goal for
the release. This section attempts to articulate what a successful
GNOME3 release looks like to reduce as many surprises as possible come
GA time.

+AD0 Comments +ACY Discussion +AD0
Given that GNOME 3 offers a +ACo-dramatically+ACo different user experience
than GNOME 2.X, there are going to be plenty of users who are
surprised/disrupted by the changes. As a result, we wanted to start
compiling common questions/workarounds/workflows that have come up so
far. I anticipate referencing these a lot on irc/lists. Perhaps, over
time these migrate into release notes.

Please take a moment to review the changes (again, see diff +AFs-2+AF0). I
suspect there is a lot more room to set expectations for the upcoming
releases. Feel free to contribute additional comments/ideas along those
lines.

Thanks,
James

+AFs-1+AF0 Several more folks including adamw, rbergeron, jsmith, kevin and
notting
+AFs-2+AF0 https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title+AD0-Features+ACU
2FGnome3+ACY-diff+AD0-220135+ACY-oldid+AD0-220015
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:52 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default GNOME3 feature page - updated scoped and comments

On Wed, 2011-02-09 at 11:18 +0000, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:
> On 02/08/2011 09:37 PM, James Laska wrote:
> > = Comments & Discussion =
> > Given that GNOME 3 offers a *dramatically* different user experience
> > than GNOME 2.X, there are going to be plenty of users who are
> > surprised/disrupted by the changes. As a result, we wanted to start
> > compiling common questions/workarounds/workflows that have come up so
> > far. I anticipate referencing these a lot on irc/lists. Perhaps, over
> > time these migrate into release notes.
>
> We need to get this list going and keep tabs on bugs filed against
> that design decisions and preferable point to upstream
> bugs/discussion(s) as Bastien did in respond to me in another thread
> on this list since I hit yet another case what I call a regression/bug
> but another might call works as designed.
>
> We had a shitty weather last night which was perfect for me to just
> throw myself in the couch in the living room reading a ebook over a
> warm cup of coffee before you hit the sack well that did not turn out
> so well I spent most of the time battling "power saving" features
> since I was running the laptop on battery on my couch in my living
> room.
>
> No matter what I did ( setting the brightness to max ) after I period
> of time I either had a screen lock or the display decided to dim it
> self again which by the way to not seem to be consistent to behaviour
> I set it to and going through the power settings I notice that for
> some reasons the ui designers have decide to remove the option "Never"
> and in the end I accepted defeat ( or achieved victory over power
> saving depending how you look at it ) and unplug one of the lamps in
> the living room and plug my adapter in to work around "Power saving"
> behaviour.
>
> These four bugs I encounter as in three code bugs one design bug or
> are these not bugs and are *working* as designed?
>
> 1.
>
> The screen lock taking place which did not be consistent to what
> settings I had in power settings.

The screen lock also did not remember its state after restarting the
panel I guess. I hooked up this code yesterday upstream.

> 2.
>
> The display deciding to dim it self after a period of time that did
> not seem consistent to what I had set to in the power settings.

That's a bug. Although you probably mean the "Screen" settings, because
there's no such setting in the power settings.

> 3.
>
> The display deciding to dim it self after an reset the display
> brightness setttings after I manually set it ( happens regardless if I
> used a key compo to increase it or I did so through application ).
>
> 4.
>
> Usability regression or a design bugs as I call them the removal of
> "Never" as an option and be stuck with one hour.

This is not a bug though.

<snip>
> Note that I have not filed a single one of those bug(s) I have
> mentioned since I'm not sure these are bugs at all or working as
> designed. . .

If you're reading an e-book in fullscreen, your e-book reader should
probably inhibit the idle timer so that 1) your screen doesn't dim 2)
your screen doesn't lock when you're reading an e-book.

That would solve all your problems above. For the rest, be patient and
wait for the recently written code to get downstream.

Cheers

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Old 02-09-2011, 03:33 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default GNOME3 feature page - updated scoped and comments

On 02/09/2011 02:52 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> If you're reading an e-book in fullscreen, your e-book reader should
> probably inhibit the idle timer so that 1) your screen doesn't dim 2)
> your screen doesn't lock when you're reading an e-book.

Good to know it's an application bug ( instead of kernel/X/Gnome
specific one ) thanks.

> That would solve all your problems above. For the rest, be patient and
> wait for the recently written code to get downstream.

Will do

No comments on my "power management profiles" idea proposal.

Like it sucked and we got something better in store for users or yeah it
could work but needs some work

Cheers.

JBG
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:45 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default GNOME3 feature page - updated scoped and comments

On Wed, 2011-02-09 at 16:33 +0000, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:
> On 02/09/2011 02:52 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> > If you're reading an e-book in fullscreen, your e-book reader should
> > probably inhibit the idle timer so that 1) your screen doesn't dim 2)
> > your screen doesn't lock when you're reading an e-book.
>
> Good to know it's an application bug ( instead of kernel/X/Gnome
> specific one ) thanks.
>
> > That would solve all your problems above. For the rest, be patient and
> > wait for the recently written code to get downstream.
>
> Will do
>
> No comments on my "power management profiles" idea proposal.

Profiles don't work when you need to go into the preferences to switch
them. Especially in that case when it's to work-around what an
application does.

The way the system behaves should really be "helped" by the
applications. If the application knows that the user is reading a book,
then it should disable idle. That's already what Totem and Evince do
when you're watching a movie or doing a presentation.

> Like it sucked and we got something better in store for users or yeah it
> could work but needs some work

Cheers

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Old 02-09-2011, 04:52 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default GNOME3 feature page - updated scoped and comments

On 02/09/2011 11:15 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
>
> The way the system behaves should really be "helped" by the
> applications. If the application knows that the user is reading a book,
> then it should disable idle. That's already what Totem and Evince do
> when you're watching a movie or doing a presentation.

A GNOME 3 checklist for application developers/package maintainers would
be very useful to have.

Rahul
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:33 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default GNOME3 feature page - updated scoped and comments

On 02/09/2011 05:45 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> Profiles don't work when you need to go into the preferences to switch
> them. Especially in that case when it's to work-around what an
> application does.
>
> The way the system behaves should really be "helped" by the
> applications. If the application knows that the user is reading a book,
> then it should disable idle. That's already what Totem and Evince do
> when you're watching a movie or doing a presentation.

Ah yes but that would not turn off/disable bluethooth and networking etc.

Basically when you unplugged the power cable the end user could be
presented with an option to select predefined task oriented power
managing profiles and present that to the user like "Surfing the web"
"Reading" "Watching a movie" "Perform general tasks" "Dont take any
power saving actions" etc.

Basically tailor the power saving to a specific task is going to perform
as in reducing the power consumption by turning everything off/down
except what's strictly necessary to give enjoyable experience on the
task he's going to be performing to save as much power as possible.

As an example if I would choose "Reading" I know I wont be surfing the
internet so turn off the network card, I know I wont be using bluetooth
so turn that off to save power etc. stuff more in that direction but of
course the application needs to be able to disable idle as you have
mentioned.

But yeah this might be a bit far fetch idea..

Cheers

JBG
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:50 AM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default GNOME3 feature page - updated scoped and comments

On Wed, 2011-02-09 at 18:33 +0000, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:
> On 02/09/2011 05:45 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> > Profiles don't work when you need to go into the preferences to switch
> > them. Especially in that case when it's to work-around what an
> > application does.
> >
> > The way the system behaves should really be "helped" by the
> > applications. If the application knows that the user is reading a book,
> > then it should disable idle. That's already what Totem and Evince do
> > when you're watching a movie or doing a presentation.
>
> Ah yes but that would not turn off/disable bluethooth and networking etc.
>
> Basically when you unplugged the power cable the end user could be
> presented with an option to select predefined task oriented power
> managing profiles and present that to the user like "Surfing the web"
> "Reading" "Watching a movie" "Perform general tasks" "Dont take any
> power saving actions" etc.
>
> Basically tailor the power saving to a specific task is going to perform
> as in reducing the power consumption by turning everything off/down
> except what's strictly necessary to give enjoyable experience on the
> task he's going to be performing to save as much power as possible.
>
> As an example if I would choose "Reading" I know I wont be surfing the
> internet so turn off the network card, I know I wont be using bluetooth
> so turn that off to save power etc. stuff more in that direction but of
> course the application needs to be able to disable idle as you have
> mentioned.
>
> But yeah this might be a bit far fetch idea..

I don't think it's the right way to do things. Turning off Bluetooth
completely will have close to zero effect on your battery consumption as
long as your device isn't discoverable. Should be the same for the
wireless.

Given those casepoints, the new "Network" dialogue will offer you a
flight mode, disabling all networking. For the other profiles mentioned,
the applications can already poke at gnome-session to disable "power
saving actions" within their remit.

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