Hi, all. Just wondering if changes to comps for F15 (GNOME 3) have been
considered already. It'd be good to have any necessary changes made ASAP
so that nightlies start to resemble what F15 final will look like, as
much as possible.

For a start it seems sensible to make gnome-shell mandatory, and maybe
gnome-panel would be default rather than mandatory. Per
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=658605 , we'll also need
gnome-themes-standard to be installed by default, and I'm not sure
anything currently causes that; though adding it to comps may not be the
best approach, as that won't fix updates.

Are there any other necessary changes?
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On Tue, 2011-01-11 at 13:43 +0000, Adam Williamson wrote:
> Hi, all. Just wondering if changes to comps for F15 (GNOME 3) have been
> considered already. It'd be good to have any necessary changes made ASAP
> so that nightlies start to resemble what F15 final will look like, as
> much as possible.
>
> For a start it seems sensible to make gnome-shell mandatory, and maybe
> gnome-panel would be default rather than mandatory. Per
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=658605 , we'll also need
> gnome-themes-standard to be installed by default, and I'm not sure
> anything currently causes that; though adding it to comps may not be the
> best approach, as that won't fix updates.
>
> Are there any other necessary changes?

I've been meaning to do this before Christmas, but gtk3 kept me busy.
I'll get to it this week, hopefully.

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On Tue, 2011-01-11 at 13:43 +0000, Adam Williamson wrote:
> Hi, all. Just wondering if changes to comps for F15 (GNOME 3) have been
> considered already. It'd be good to have any necessary changes made ASAP
> so that nightlies start to resemble what F15 final will look like, as
> much as possible.
>
> For a start it seems sensible to make gnome-shell mandatory, and maybe
> gnome-panel would be default rather than mandatory. Per
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=658605 , we'll also need
> gnome-themes-standard to be installed by default, and I'm not sure
> anything currently causes that; though adding it to comps may not be the
> best approach, as that won't fix updates.
>
> Are there any other necessary changes?

I've made a first pass over comps and the spin kickstart files. Some
things I've made:

- replace gnome-themes by gnome-themes-standard, as you've noticed
- don't include librsvg3 (which had only a very brief existence)
- update our exclusions to exclude libreoffice instead of ooo

After these changes, I end up with a 730M desktop spin, even without
rhythmbox.

As far as further necessary changes, I see at least the following:

- finish packaging cantarell fonts, and include them

- smoke out perl dependencies again

- look at other ways to save some space

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On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 10:55 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:

> I've made a first pass over comps and the spin kickstart files. Some
> things I've made:

Cool, thanks.

> - replace gnome-themes by gnome-themes-standard, as you've noticed

Again, should some change also be made to package dependencies so this
is handled correctly on upgrades?

> - look at other ways to save some space

alternatively: revisit the idea of shipping a larger image intended for
USB or DVD? (did we do that for f14? I can't recall...)
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On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Matthias Clasen <mclasen@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-01-11 at 13:43 +0000, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> Hi, all. Just wondering if changes to comps for F15 (GNOME 3) have been
>> considered already. It'd be good to have any necessary changes made ASAP
>> so that nightlies start to resemble what F15 final will look like, as
>> much as possible.
>>
>> For a start it seems sensible to make gnome-shell mandatory, and maybe
>> gnome-panel would be default rather than mandatory. Per
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=658605 , we'll also need
>> gnome-themes-standard to be installed by default, and I'm not sure
>> anything currently causes that; though adding it to comps may not be the
>> best approach, as that won't fix updates.
>>
>> Are there any other necessary changes?
>
> I've made a first pass over comps and the spin kickstart files. Some
> things I've made:
>
> - replace gnome-themes by gnome-themes-standard, as you've noticed
> - don't include librsvg3 (which had only a very brief existence)

why was a lib ever explicitly included anyway. They should all be
pulled in by deps so you just list the core apps and deps get pulled
in as required.

> - update our exclusions to exclude libreoffice instead of ooo
>
> After these changes, I end up with a 730M desktop spin, even without
> rhythmbox.
>
> As far as further necessary changes, I see at least the following:
>
> - finish packaging cantarell fonts, and include them
>
> - smoke out perl dependencies again

Oh, its back again. It just won't go away :-/ I'll have another look,
it was on my todo list.

Peter
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On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 10:55 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
>
>> I've made a first pass over comps and the spin kickstart files. Some
>> things I've made:
>
> Cool, thanks.
>
>> - replace gnome-themes by gnome-themes-standard, as you've noticed
>
> Again, should some change also be made to package dependencies so this
> is handled correctly on upgrades?
>
>> - look at other ways to save some space
>
> alternatively: revisit the idea of shipping a larger image intended for
> USB or DVD? (did we do that for f14? I can't recall...)

>From memory it was a DVD through the alpha/beta testing process and
was shrunk back down to CD size in time for release.

Peter
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On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 16:35 +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Matthias Clasen <mclasen@redhat.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > - replace gnome-themes by gnome-themes-standard, as you've noticed
> > - don't include librsvg3 (which had only a very brief existence)
>
> why was a lib ever explicitly included anyway. They should all be
> pulled in by deps so you just list the core apps and deps get pulled
> in as required.

So that the SVG loader for gdk-pixbuf-3.0 (which was in GTK+ 3.0
packages) was dragged in. gdk-pixbuf is now independent and there's no
need to version it (for now).


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On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 16:35 +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:


> > - don't include librsvg3 (which had only a very brief existence)
>
> why was a lib ever explicitly included anyway. They should all be
> pulled in by deps so you just list the core apps and deps get pulled
> in as required.

It was included since it provides a gdk-pixbuf loader, and we didn't
want to depend on random dependencies for pulling it in.

> > - smoke out perl dependencies again
>
> Oh, its back again. It just won't go away :-/ I'll have another look,
> it was on my todo list.

It was some hplip thing, twaugh is on it.

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On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 16:13 +0000, Adam Williamson wrote:

>
> > - replace gnome-themes by gnome-themes-standard, as you've noticed
>
> Again, should some change also be made to package dependencies so this
> is handled correctly on upgrades?

I've asked Ray to look into this and related theming changes.

With the de-emphasizing of theming in gnome3, some things don't make
sense anymore, and we may end up dropping the fedora-gnome-theme package
altogether.

I've also made some adjustments to the set of mandatory package in the
gnome-desktop comps group (but that should not make any difference for
the spin composition).

> > - look at other ways to save some space
>
> alternatively: revisit the idea of shipping a larger image intended for
> USB or DVD? (did we do that for f14? I can't recall...)

It didn't happen back then. I think we can get back to 700M with some
discipline.

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On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 11:54 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:

> It didn't happen back then. I think we can get back to 700M with some
> discipline.

one of the common themes of the F14 review cycle was ridiculing the lack
of an office suite on the desktop image, particularly given the presence
of 'useless' things like planner (I'm paraphrasing from the reviews, not
giving my own personal opinion). I know we have good arguments against
including an office suite, and I suspect planner is just in there as a
hangover from when we tried to include GNOME Office, but there does seem
to be a consistent impression in reviews that the current package choice
seems bizarre. It's worth at least considering going to 1GB to have
LibreOffice, I think, and if we don't, we should drop planner from the
desktop spin as well as dropping LibreOffice, to avoid the apparent
weirdness of having a planning tool but no other office apps.
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