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Old 02-01-2008, 11:47 AM
"Valent Turkovic"
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

Hi,
I'm wondering what is the state of relations between Fedora and
compiz-fusion projects?
I see that lot of other distros have 3D Desktop as a feature for few
releases back even in the installers.
In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from
users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say
that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature.
I personaly have a feeling when I use it that this feature it is not
given enough attention in Fedora. Some distributions ask during the
install if users would like to start 3D desktop feature, and in Fedora
users usually need to know exactly where to go to enable 3D effects.
I'm not saying that one is better that the other, just saying what I
see on other distros.

I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking
what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop.

Cheers,
Valent.

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Old 02-01-2008, 12:15 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

Valent Turkovic wrote:

Hi,



In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from
users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say
that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature.


You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for
"3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora.



I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking
what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop.


http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/2007/08/compiz-and-fedora.html

Rahul










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Old 02-01-2008, 12:42 PM
"Dimitris Glezos"
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

On Feb 1, 2008 3:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from
> > users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say
> > that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature.
>
> You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for
> "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora.

Maybe Valent is right, that for a *user* (someone unaware of what's
under the hood, and, moreover, who coded it) looking at
desktop-efffects, it may indeed seem that way. If it does, then we're
not giving the correct picture out there. Which is something that
nowadays we all agree we should work on fixing.

-d


> > I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking
> > what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop.
>
> http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/2007/08/compiz-and-fedora.html
>
> Rahul




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Old 02-01-2008, 02:56 PM
"Valent Turkovic"
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

On Feb 1, 2008 2:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from
> > users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say
> > that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature.
>
> You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for
> "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora.

Have I offended you in some way?

> > I'm not trying to start some flame bait thread, but I'm really asking
> > what is the official Fedora project standpoint regarding 3D Desktop.
>
> http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/2007/08/compiz-and-fedora.html
>
> Rahul

I know about aigxl being made by red hat developers, I bloged about it
some 3 years ago on my blog when nobody outside red hat knew that
aiglx.

http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/index.php/archives/extremni-eyecandy/

ps. thanks for the link, I'll read it right now

Valent
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:13 PM
"Valent Turkovic"
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

On Feb 1, 2008 2:42 PM, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris@glezos.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2008 3:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> > Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > > Hi,
> >
> > > In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from
> > > users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say
> > > that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature.
> >
> > You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for
> > "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora.
>
> Maybe Valent is right, that for a *user* (someone unaware of what's
> under the hood, and, moreover, who coded it) looking at
> desktop-efffects, it may indeed seem that way. If it does, then we're
> not giving the correct picture out there. Which is something that
> nowadays we all agree we should work on fixing.
>
> -d

I know that you are devels here and that have the other insight that I
users do (like me), but please look at it from my perpective. First I
know that red hat developers made aiglx (I bloged about it 3 years
ago) but since a lot has happened. Novell put out XGL and compiz
worked only with XGL in the beginning (novell got a lot of heat for
that) and now compiz works with both XGL and aiglx. Then came beryl...
and finaly compiz-fusion project. And although I know that all those
project benefited from aiglx the general perspection is that "beryl"
or now "compiz-fusion" enables 3D to desktop, users don't know that
Fedora and Red hat are to thank for most of that.

Not for the part of Fedra - I saw lots of distros that enabled "3D
Desktop" even as back as 3 releases ago... and Fedora still does not.
I read the blog post Rahul gave me and I thought as much - great
developers in fedora and red hat want thing to work better so they are
fixing issues and not releasing to early. I understand that. Other
distros may have gone and enabled it and had more issues that they had
positive feedback or and maybe they had more positive feedback, I
don't know.

This question arose when I saw how fedora pushes the envelope of a
modern desktop on many fronts - PulseAudio being just one of them, and
using them before other distros, and compare that to 3D Dektop feature
looks like 3D desktop is being ignored - this is ofcourse just from a
users point of view because I know that there is lot of work "under
the hood" that normal users don't see.

Valent.


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Old 02-01-2008, 03:35 PM
drago01
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

Enabling compiz by default can not be done yet because some applications
simply do not work correctly with it (windowed opengl apps etc.).

Work is being done to fix this (redirected direct rendering).
Without it enabling compiz by default isn't an option, but users have
the option to enable it via 4 clicks.


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Old 02-01-2008, 03:39 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

Valent Turkovic wrote:

On Feb 1, 2008 2:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Valent Turkovic wrote:

Hi,
In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from
users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say
that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature.

You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for
"3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora.


Have I offended you in some way?


No. I merely find that claim unnecessary and inflammatory especially
with the knowledge that tells you otherwise. Asking a question about
development plans is perfectly fine otherwise.


Rahul

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Old 02-01-2008, 04:20 PM
"Valent Turkovic"
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

On Feb 1, 2008 5:35 PM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
> Enabling compiz by default can not be done yet because some applications
> simply do not work correctly with it (windowed opengl apps etc.).
> Work is being done to fix this (redirected direct rendering).
> Without it enabling compiz by default isn't an option, but users have
> the option to enable it via 4 clicks.

This is the answer I was looking for.

Thank you Drago.


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Old 02-01-2008, 04:24 PM
"Valent Turkovic"
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

On Feb 1, 2008 5:39 PM, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > On Feb 1, 2008 2:15 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> >> Valent Turkovic wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> In Fedora there is a option "Enable desktop effects" but it looks from
> >>> users point of view that it is there only so that nobody can't say
> >>> that fedora project doesn't have 3D desktop feature.
> >> You are being obnoxious. AIGLX which is used in most distributions for
> >> "3D desktops" today was developed with Fedora.
> >
> > Have I offended you in some way?
>
> No. I merely find that claim unnecessary and inflammatory especially
> with the knowledge that tells you otherwise. Asking a question about
> development plans is perfectly fine otherwise.
>

Why do you believe so strongly that I was dishonest when I said that
it wasn't a flame bait?

I really wanted an answer about "3D Desktop" and that to me is not
equal to aiglx. Aiglx is the base of it AFAIK but doesn't make it by
itself.
3D Desktop is for me aiglx+compiz fusion+configuring some defalt
behaviour on gnome, etc...

Valent.


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Old 02-01-2008, 04:41 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora and 3D Desktop

Valent Turkovic wrote:


Why do you believe so strongly that I was dishonest when I said that
it wasn't a flame bait?


You previous claims in the same email looked inconsistent with your last
assertion and you have been posting similar mails in other lists too. I
would have phrased it entirely differently if I was merely asking a
question about Feature X or development plan Y. Besides the blog link I
posted was the first hit when searching for "Compiz default in Fedora"


Also noticed,

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewGdm has been updated now with
some information on Compiz.


Rahul

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