I've got some (very welcomed!) remarks and ideas on network
configuration UI in
Anaconda from James Laska, plus couple of tricky bugs, which made me to
suggest
this change of networking UI.
Look:
-----
WARNING: The UI is still ugly, it has to be polished and reworded, its the
elements and flow, not the layout, what is important for me at this
point. The
layout and functionality should be the same for network screen and for
enablement dialog.
Configuration:
http://rvykydal.fedorapeople.org/configuration.ogg
(Please ignore "activate on boot" checkbox behavior in the screenshot.
It is
Why (I imagine: isn't that too much of UI)?
-------------------------------------------
I don't think so, anyways what drove me this way were limitations of using
nm-c-e (which fits into desktop, combined with systray applet) in installer
UI, and less the desire to offer enough options to user.
* "active" checkbox:
It addresses bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504983 -
once a
device was up it couldn't be reconfigured, typical case is wrong static
configuration. Hence the "active" checkboxes that can be used to bring
device
down and up with new configuration (this has to be handled out of nm-c-e).
Well, something is still missing: user is *not* offered enablement dialog if
wrong static configuration is active (iscsi UI, network repos UI). To
fix this
we could:
1) Add [Configure Network] button for invoking the dialog to relevant
places
(advanced storage screen, repo UI screen).
2) Have a hotkey to invoke the dialog - I like this, but we must be careful
with network storage devices.
3) If we had any step-persistent piece of UI (like systray in desktop)
we could
have icon there.
* "activate on boot" checkbox:
It deals with bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498207 -
Device
is not activated automatically after reboot for media installs. I added
another
checkbox "activate on boot" for it. Although there is "Connect
Automatically"
checkbox in nm-c-e to achieve this by setting ONBOOT ifcfg value, we
can't use
it reasonably in installer (as opposed to desktop) because here ONBOOT
is used
to bring devices up/down (and checking the nm-c-e checkbox can bring the
device
up as a side effect). Also with the new "activate on boot" checkbox on
network
screen it is clear what our default is (currently it is quite unloved "no").
* moreover:
The whole option of network configuration is more noticeable on the network
screen.
Also it makes it easier to enable additional devices (for example another
device for iscsi).
I can post patches too. The +/- ratio is aprx 1.
Other ideas going too far:
- Add "Rescan access points" button.
- Add "Check connection" button.
Radek
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10-20-2010, 03:56 PM
David Cantrell
proposal: anaconda networking UI change
On 10/20/2010 05:24 AM, Radek Vykydal wrote:
Hi list,
I've got some (very welcomed!) remarks and ideas on network
configuration UI in
Anaconda from James Laska, plus couple of tricky bugs, which made me
to suggest
this change of networking UI.
Look:
-----
WARNING: The UI is still ugly, it has to be polished and reworded, its the
elements and flow, not the layout, what is important for me at this
point. The
layout and functionality should be the same for network screen and for
enablement dialog.
Configuration:
http://rvykydal.fedorapeople.org/configuration.ogg
(Please ignore "activate on boot" checkbox behavior in the screenshot.
It is
not implemented yet. Also the order of devices.)
This is probably the most often complaint I hear from users. I know the
UI is
still needing some work, but keep in mind that we need to be able to handle
any number of NICs on this screen. A list box with a treeview will most
likely be necessary because I do not see any other way to do it.
Aside from the dialog box needing a lot of work, this looks like an
improvement.
Why (I imagine: isn't that too much of UI)?
-------------------------------------------
I don't think so, anyways what drove me this way were limitations of using
nm-c-e (which fits into desktop, combined with systray applet) in
installer
UI, and less the desire to offer enough options to user.
* "active" checkbox:
It addresses bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504983 -
once a
device was up it couldn't be reconfigured, typical case is wrong static
configuration. Hence the "active" checkboxes that can be used to bring
device
down and up with new configuration (this has to be handled out of nm-c-e).
Well, something is still missing: user is *not* offered enablement
dialog if
wrong static configuration is active (iscsi UI, network repos UI). To
fix this
we could:
1) Add [Configure Network] button for invoking the dialog to relevant
places
(advanced storage screen, repo UI screen).
2) Have a hotkey to invoke the dialog - I like this, but we must be
careful
with network storage devices.
3) If we had any step-persistent piece of UI (like systray in desktop)
we could
have icon there.
It does sound like a crazy idea, but why not run a panel that can hold
nm-applet? Not necessarily gnome-panel, but something like fbpanel or
another
small applet-holding program.
* "activate on boot" checkbox:
It deals with bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498207 -
Device
is not activated automatically after reboot for media installs. I
added another
checkbox "activate on boot" for it. Although there is "Connect
Automatically"
checkbox in nm-c-e to achieve this by setting ONBOOT ifcfg value, we
can't use
it reasonably in installer (as opposed to desktop) because here ONBOOT
is used
to bring devices up/down (and checking the nm-c-e checkbox can bring
the device
up as a side effect). Also with the new "activate on boot" checkbox on
network
screen it is clear what our default is (currently it is quite unloved
"no").
'activate on boot' should mirror the ONBOOT setting for the device. This is
what we used to do before we moved to NetworkManager.
* moreover:
The whole option of network configuration is more noticeable on the
network
screen.
Also it makes it easier to enable additional devices (for example another
device for iscsi).
I can post patches too. The +/- ratio is aprx 1.
Other ideas going too far:
- Add "Rescan access points" button.
- Add "Check connection" button.
For users doing non-network installs, the complaint we hear a lot is
that the
network is not configured once they reboot. Another option might be to
check
for an active link for non-network install methods and encourage users to
configure the network interface before completing installation (e.g., "I see
you have an active network link, would you like to configure it?").
--
David Cantrell <dcantrell@redhat.com>
Red Hat / Honolulu, HI
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10-20-2010, 06:11 PM
Radek Vykydal
proposal: anaconda networking UI change
On 10/20/2010 05:56 PM, David Cantrell wrote:
This is probably the most often complaint I hear from users. I know
the UI is
still needing some work, but keep in mind that we need to be able to
handle
any number of NICs on this screen. A list box with a treeview will most
likely be necessary because I do not see any other way to do it.
This probably needs more work, but I question the value. There is a
lot more
to wifi settings than just the access point. Plus, if we expose the
access
point list here, we will definitely be asked to expose many other
settings.
This is because without ESSID specified in ifcfg file, nm-c-e doesn't
find/show any connections. I asked Dan Williams why in email.
I guess that on desktop it works because there is also another configuration
source than ifcfg file.
3) If we had any step-persistent piece of UI (like systray in desktop)
we could
have icon there.
It does sound like a crazy idea, but why not run a panel that can hold
nm-applet? Not necessarily gnome-panel, but something like fbpanel or
another
small applet-holding program.
I think it's worth investigation.
* "activate on boot" checkbox:
It deals with bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498207 -
Device
is not activated automatically after reboot for media installs. I
added another
checkbox "activate on boot" for it. Although there is "Connect
Automatically"
checkbox in nm-c-e to achieve this by setting ONBOOT ifcfg value, we
can't use
it reasonably in installer (as opposed to desktop) because here ONBOOT
is used
to bring devices up/down (and checking the nm-c-e checkbox can bring
the device
up as a side effect). Also with the new "activate on boot" checkbox on
network
screen it is clear what our default is (currently it is quite unloved
"no").
'activate on boot' should mirror the ONBOOT setting for the device.
This is
what we used to do before we moved to NetworkManager.
As I said, with NetworkManager ONBOOT has a side-effect, per Dan Williams:
<cite>
4) NM_CONTROLLED=yes + ONBOOT=yes : NM manages device, and whenever the
device is available (ie, has carrier/link) NM will activate it using the
connection details from the ifcfg
</cite>
Also we used to have complete control over the ONBOOT setting, but with
nm-c-e we've lost it.
Having the setting stored elsewhere, we can set ONBOOT value
of ifcfg files of target system at the end of instllation
without the side-effect of activating the devices, which we can't
do with nm-c-e's "Connect Automatically" checkbox. Also using
"Connect Automatically" would need to be documented, whereas
the new checkbox is just visible. (Additionally we can ask
at the end of installation if we detect all devices having
ONBOOT=no).
As for mirroring of 'activate on boot' and ONBOOT, I'm for the:
ONBOOT (which means active in installer) => 'activate on boot',
but I don't want to require the opposite:
'activate on boot' => ONBOOT (= active).
For users doing non-network installs, the complaint we hear a lot is
that the
network is not configured once they reboot. Another option might be
to check
for an active link for non-network install methods and encourage users to
configure the network interface before completing installation (e.g.,
"I see
you have an active network link, would you like to configure it?").
The devices should be always configured to a default which is
ipv4 dhcp (there were a bug for minimal install, fixed in F14).
I think the complaints were because of almost invisible
[Configure Network] button, but with proposed network screen
users won't miss their opportunity to configure the network and
I don't think any encouragement is needed. It can be seen as another
useless bothering dialog. And if we encourage, we should probably
do it right on the network screen.
Also I am wondering how we would know whether a device was configured
by user (global flag? :/ ... what if it was configured in stage 1?
examine ifcfg file? :/ ... dirty and fragile)
Thanks for your comments.
Radek
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10-20-2010, 06:24 PM
"Brian C. Lane"
proposal: anaconda networking UI change
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 05:56:56AM -1000, David Cantrell wrote:
> On 10/20/2010 05:24 AM, Radek Vykydal wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I've got some (very welcomed!) remarks and ideas on network
> configuration UI in
> > Anaconda from James Laska, plus couple of tricky bugs, which made
> >me
> to suggest
> > this change of networking UI.
[snip -- mutt seems to have mangled the quotes]
In general, I like the idea of depending on NM for the network
setup/editing/etc.
On the page where we now launch the NM editor we probably need a summary
of what's been activated that also shows what will happen on boot. A
listing of all the possible devices will just be a duplication of the
network manager stuff.
Maybe a short 'what to do here' blurb in place of the list when nothing
has been setup.
I don't think we need to add a panel, that's going to take away from the
flow of anaconda and possibly introduce lots of asynchronous places for
users to go and change things unexpectedly (ala liveCD style).
--
Brian C. Lane | Anaconda Team | IRC: bcl #anaconda | Port Orchard, WA (PST8PDT)
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10-21-2010, 04:43 AM
Bill Nottingham
proposal: anaconda networking UI change
Radek Vykydal (rvykydal@redhat.com) said:
> * "activate on boot" checkbox:
If we're using this to frob the configuration setting that is
translated to 'Connect automatically' (as opposed to only-on-boot),
then it should be described as such.
Bill
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10-21-2010, 10:55 AM
Radek Vykydal
proposal: anaconda networking UI change
On 10/20/2010 08:24 PM, Brian C. Lane wrote:
On the page where we now launch the NM editor we probably need a summary
of what's been activated that also shows what will happen on boot. A
listing of all the possible devices will just be a duplication of the
network manager stuff.
We need to be able to activate/disconnect any device to
apply new configuration set in nm-c-e. Basically to do what
NetworManager Applet does on desktop. That is why I am
adding the list of devices with checkboxes for (de)activation.
I don't think we need to add a panel, that's going to take away from the
flow of anaconda and possibly introduce lots of asynchronous places for
users to go and change things unexpectedly (ala liveCD style).
Maybe the NM applet could reside on installation screen
in the similar way as [back] and [next] buttons.
And yes, adding a panel, even the applet can have issues
due to its asynchronousnes, but the benefits can be significant.
Radek
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10-21-2010, 05:12 PM
Chris Lumens
proposal: anaconda networking UI change
Make sure you talk to Mo (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Useruffy) as
well. She's actively working on an anaconda UI plan, so it'd help to
coordinate your plans with her to make sure it all comes out looking
good.
- Chris
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proposal: anaconda networking UI change
uffy) as
