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Old 10-12-2010, 08:19 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

Hey, folks. Just wanted to flag up this bug before we hit the change
deadline:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824

it seems that the default policy for multiple monitors in current F14 is
not to use them at all (see
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824#c15 ). On the face of
it, this seems like an unintentional change from previous policy. Is
this actually the case? If so, can someone submit a fix, quick? If
it's an intentional change, it should be announced/documented for the
release...
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 10-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Peter Robinson
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hey, folks. Just wanted to flag up this bug before we hit the change
> deadline:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824
>
> it seems that the default policy for multiple monitors in current F14 is
> not to use them at all (see
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824#c15 ). On the face of
> it, this seems like an unintentional change from previous policy. Is
> this actually the case? If so, can someone submit a fix, quick? If
> it's an intentional change, it should be announced/documented for the
> release...

Now that you mention it (and I might be hallucinating) I think I've
noticed this when in the office on my docking station when I boot up
in the morning but when I log in I get my usual (saved?) config of
spanning of both screens (I'm not sure if that is due to a historical
saved config). When I resume (even when docking from not being in the
docking station) it seems to come back to dual screen just fine. I
didn't really notice the lack of second screen for login as I'm
generally not there that long and it sort of seems eco to have only
one screen to deal with a login dialog as long as it restores the
default for the profile or defaults to using both for a new profile.

Peter

PS massive kudos to X/power and other developers for the last couple
of releases with perfect dual screen in F-13 (and even better in F-14)
and good suspend (looking great in F-14) it makes the week at work
much nicer (despite crappy BIOS ACPI tables!).
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:24 AM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Tue, 2010-10-12 at 13:19 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> Hey, folks. Just wanted to flag up this bug before we hit the change
> deadline:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824
>
> it seems that the default policy for multiple monitors in current F14 is
> not to use them at all (see
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824#c15 ). On the face of
> it, this seems like an unintentional change from previous policy. Is
> this actually the case? If so, can someone submit a fix, quick? If
> it's an intentional change, it should be announced/documented for the
> release...

To me, given the commit:
http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?h=gnome-2-32&id=67958ef6faab5797d5c5ad939db36f393706984a
it certainly doesn't look intentional.

And it shouldn't be changing the already existing monitor setup, that's
certain.

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Old 10-13-2010, 12:53 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Wed, 2010-10-13 at 01:24 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-10-12 at 13:19 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > Hey, folks. Just wanted to flag up this bug before we hit the change
> > deadline:
> >
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824
> >
> > it seems that the default policy for multiple monitors in current F14 is
> > not to use them at all (see
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623824#c15 ). On the face of
> > it, this seems like an unintentional change from previous policy. Is
> > this actually the case? If so, can someone submit a fix, quick? If
> > it's an intentional change, it should be announced/documented for the
> > release...
>
> To me, given the commit:
> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?h=gnome-2-32&id=67958ef6faab5797d5c5ad939db36f393706984a
> it certainly doesn't look intentional.
>
> And it shouldn't be changing the already existing monitor setup, that's
> certain.

I think if you've ever gone into display preferences and changed
anything you'll have a stored setup so the change of the default won't
affect you. Possibly if you've never had occasion to do that, though,
you'd have seen changed behaviour on the update which changed the
default.

Personally I have a two-monitor setup and I never saw this bug, but I'm
fairly certain my config got written out to gconf so it makes sense that
I wouldn't see it.

Given how it got introduced (via the commit you pointed out), I guess
it'd make the most sense for us to ship an update which changes the
default to 'true', and report this upstream? Perhaps Joey didn't realize
this change has the effect of changing the previous default behaviour.
(I think previously the default was 'whatever X does', and for most
people/distros the X default would have been 'clone'; I think for Fedora
13, the default was 'span'. Either way, it's not 'turn it off'.)
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 10-15-2010, 05:45 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Tue, 2010-10-12 at 17:53 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:

> Given how it got introduced (via the commit you pointed out), I guess
> it'd make the most sense for us to ship an update which changes the
> default to 'true', and report this upstream? Perhaps Joey didn't realize
> this change has the effect of changing the previous default behaviour.
> (I think previously the default was 'whatever X does', and for most
> people/distros the X default would have been 'clone'; I think for Fedora
> 13, the default was 'span'. Either way, it's not 'turn it off'.)

Looking at the code, if we change both keys to default to true, we'll
end up with clone mode. If thats ok, we can do that. Its not 'whatever X
does' either, though.

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Old 10-15-2010, 05:47 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

Matthias Clasen (mclasen@redhat.com) said:
> > Given how it got introduced (via the commit you pointed out), I guess
> > it'd make the most sense for us to ship an update which changes the
> > default to 'true', and report this upstream? Perhaps Joey didn't realize
> > this change has the effect of changing the previous default behaviour.
> > (I think previously the default was 'whatever X does', and for most
> > people/distros the X default would have been 'clone'; I think for Fedora
> > 13, the default was 'span'. Either way, it's not 'turn it off'.)
>
> Looking at the code, if we change both keys to default to true, we'll
> end up with clone mode. If thats ok, we can do that. Its not 'whatever X
> does' either, though.

It sounds better than 'off' to me, at least. And clone mode is easier
to fix into span mode than span is easier to fix into clone mode, if
something goes wrong.

Bill
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:59 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 13:47 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Matthias Clasen (mclasen@redhat.com) said:
> > > Given how it got introduced (via the commit you pointed out), I guess
> > > it'd make the most sense for us to ship an update which changes the
> > > default to 'true', and report this upstream? Perhaps Joey didn't realize
> > > this change has the effect of changing the previous default behaviour.
> > > (I think previously the default was 'whatever X does', and for most
> > > people/distros the X default would have been 'clone'; I think for Fedora
> > > 13, the default was 'span'. Either way, it's not 'turn it off'.)
> >
> > Looking at the code, if we change both keys to default to true, we'll
> > end up with clone mode. If thats ok, we can do that. Its not 'whatever X
> > does' either, though.
>
> It sounds better than 'off' to me, at least. And clone mode is easier
> to fix into span mode than span is easier to fix into clone mode, if
> something goes wrong.

I guess we should ask Novell why they chose 'off' as the default. The
other thing I'd like to clarify is if the code actually backs up its
implicit claim of being restricted to 'laptop+external monitor" cases:
is there really code in there to distinguish these from any other
multihead case?

note that the X default to span was intentionally chosen by I think ajax
during f13 cycle, so he presumably wants that to be the default...
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

--
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:05 PM
Adam Jackson
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 10:59 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:

> note that the X default to span was intentionally chosen by I think ajax
> during f13 cycle, so he presumably wants that to be the default...

"Meh". I prefer spanning to cloning in general because (in general)
cloning isn't something you can do reliably. But we also can't reliably
know output connection state in all cases, so the login manager kinda
wants a logical clone kind of config where the login dialog is visible
everywhere. You can't win, you can only pick how you lose.

- ajax

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Old 11-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 10:59 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-10-15 at 13:47 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > Matthias Clasen (mclasen@redhat.com) said:
> > > > Given how it got introduced (via the commit you pointed out), I guess
> > > > it'd make the most sense for us to ship an update which changes the
> > > > default to 'true', and report this upstream? Perhaps Joey didn't realize
> > > > this change has the effect of changing the previous default behaviour.
> > > > (I think previously the default was 'whatever X does', and for most
> > > > people/distros the X default would have been 'clone'; I think for Fedora
> > > > 13, the default was 'span'. Either way, it's not 'turn it off'.)
> > >
> > > Looking at the code, if we change both keys to default to true, we'll
> > > end up with clone mode. If thats ok, we can do that. Its not 'whatever X
> > > does' either, though.
> >
> > It sounds better than 'off' to me, at least. And clone mode is easier
> > to fix into span mode than span is easier to fix into clone mode, if
> > something goes wrong.
>
> I guess we should ask Novell why they chose 'off' as the default. The
> other thing I'd like to clarify is if the code actually backs up its
> implicit claim of being restricted to 'laptop+external monitor" cases:
> is there really code in there to distinguish these from any other
> multihead case?
>
> note that the X default to span was intentionally chosen by I think ajax
> during f13 cycle, so he presumably wants that to be the default...

We discussed this upstream, and we actually want to default to leaving
Xorg to setup the monitors how it pleases by default.

So this is how it's now going to be setup in the F14 update, and in
GNOME 3 (see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634092 for the
GNOME 3 changes).

Cheers

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Old 11-05-2010, 03:36 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default URGENT F14: Un-announced change to default dual-head config: intentional or accidental?

On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 16:24 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:

> > note that the X default to span was intentionally chosen by I think ajax
> > during f13 cycle, so he presumably wants that to be the default...
>
> We discussed this upstream, and we actually want to default to leaving
> Xorg to setup the monitors how it pleases by default.
>
> So this is how it's now going to be setup in the F14 update, and in
> GNOME 3 (see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634092 for the
> GNOME 3 changes).

Thanks for the note. Could you poke me when the update goes through so I
can update the Common Bugs page? Thanks.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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