On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 16:07 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> > Yeah, if we want to ship one, gwibber is pretty much the only option,
> > since it's most likely too late to fix pino before F14 is released. The
> > big cons about gwibber, in my opinion is the fairly poor performance
> > I've experienced with it (tho I last used it about 2 months ago) and the
> > number of dependencies it would pull into the livecd.
>
> Doesn't post-Beta seem too late to do this? Better to have people
> simply use their browser I'd think.
well, we have to make *some* kind of post-beta change here, since as I
said the current situation blocks the release. I don't think subbing in
gwibber for pino is a particularly scary change, all we'd have to check
is if it goes over the size limit, and if it works, which is about half
an hour of effort.
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10-01-2010, 08:25 PM
Colin Walters
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> well, we have to make *some* kind of post-beta change here, since as I
> said the current situation blocks the release. I don't think subbing in
> gwibber for pino is a particularly scary change, all we'd have to check
> is if it goes over the size limit, and if it works, which is about half
> an hour of effort.
Hm, is the only reason that gwibber works is because of the Canonical exception?
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10-01-2010, 08:44 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, Oct 01, 2010 at 01:19:52PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 16:07 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>
> > > Yeah, if we want to ship one, gwibber is pretty much the only option,
> > > since it's most likely too late to fix pino before F14 is released. The
> > > big cons about gwibber, in my opinion is the fairly poor performance
> > > I've experienced with it (tho I last used it about 2 months ago) and the
> > > number of dependencies it would pull into the livecd.
> >
> > Doesn't post-Beta seem too late to do this? Better to have people
> > simply use their browser I'd think.
>
> well, we have to make *some* kind of post-beta change here, since as I
> said the current situation blocks the release. I don't think subbing in
> gwibber for pino is a particularly scary change, all we'd have to check
> is if it goes over the size limit, and if it works, which is about half
> an hour of effort.
Right, the uncertainty I have is really around the functionality of
the new suggested default client, as opposed to "let's not do
anything." My preference would be a simple removal of pino for no
other reason than least disturbance of the Force.
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10-01-2010, 09:41 PM
drago01
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:44 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 01, 2010 at 01:19:52PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 16:07 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>>
>> > > Yeah, if we want to ship one, gwibber is pretty much the only option,
>> > > since it's most likely too late to fix pino before F14 is released. The
>> > > big cons about gwibber, in my opinion is the fairly poor performance
>> > > I've experienced with it (tho I last used it about 2 months ago) and the
>> > > number of dependencies it would pull into the livecd.
>> >
>> > Doesn't post-Beta seem too late to do this? *Better to have people
>> > simply use their browser I'd think.
>>
>> well, we have to make *some* kind of post-beta change here, since as I
>> said the current situation blocks the release. I don't think subbing in
>> gwibber for pino is a particularly scary change, all we'd have to check
>> is if it goes over the size limit, and if it works, which is about half
>> an hour of effort.
>
> Right, the uncertainty I have is really around the functionality of
> the new suggested default client, as opposed to "let's not do
> anything." *My preference would be a simple removal of pino for no
> other reason than least disturbance of the Force.
I am not sure that this is a good idea, we found that a certain app
isn't working and we have a suitable replacement so
we should opt for using the later rather than *nothing*.
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10-01-2010, 09:45 PM
Colin Walters
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:41 PM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I am not sure that this is a good idea, we found that a certain app
> isn't working and we have a suitable replacement so
> we should opt for using the later rather than *nothing*.
The suitable replacement is still available in the repositories. The
release note can say:
An application installed by default in Fedora 13, "pino" was removed
because the site no longer allows access.
For more information, see:
http://arstechnica.com/security/guides/2010/09/twitter-a-case-study-on-how-to-do-oauth-wrong.ars
As a replacement, you can access previously supported sites
(identi.ca, Twitter, etc.) via their respective web sites, or by
installing one of several replacement applications such as "gwibber".
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10-01-2010, 10:34 PM
Brian Pepple
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 17:45 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 5:41 PM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am not sure that this is a good idea, we found that a certain app
> > isn't working and we have a suitable replacement so
> > we should opt for using the later rather than *nothing*.
>
> The suitable replacement is still available in the repositories. The
> release note can say:
>
> An application installed by default in Fedora 13, "pino" was removed
> because the site no longer allows access.
> For more information, see:
> http://arstechnica.com/security/guides/2010/09/twitter-a-case-study-on-how-to-do-oauth-wrong.ars
>
> As a replacement, you can access previously supported sites
> (identi.ca, Twitter, etc.) via their respective web sites, or by
> installing one of several replacement applications such as "gwibber".
+1. I would much prefer to see us do this then add gwibber to the
LiveCD.
Later,
/B
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On Oct 1, 2010, at 14:53, Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org> wrote:
> This is definitely scope creeping the discussion here, but I'm coming
> round to the viewpoint that Fedora shoudn't ship any application in
> the default install whose primary purpose is to connect to proprietary
> web services, or at least not ones configured by default to do so.
> (All apps are of course free to be in the repositories).
>
> This would dovetail nicely with making it not suck to install applications.
How would you define a "proprietary web service"?
Is google such a service ? The only open protocol used by connecting any app to any of their servers is http, xmpp etc. Everything behind is closed. So we remove firefox ?
Lars
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10-02-2010, 12:51 AM
Jon Stanley
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, <herrmann@redhat.com> wrote:
> How would you define a "proprietary web service"?
>
> Is google such a service ? The only open protocol used by connecting any app to any of their servers is http, xmpp etc. Everything behind is closed. So we remove firefox ?
Exactly. We've been down this road. Anything which can view arbitrary
content can be used to interact with proprietary services. Do we not
ship the Exchange support for Evolution? Do we not include f-spot (I
realize it's not in the default spin) because it's able to export to
Flickr (Shotwell can too, BTW)? Where does it stop?
I think that based upon our (upcoming) vision statement, all of these
things fit. People are in control of the content with all of these
programs, and have to make a conscious choice to use the external
service. . Eliminating choices of what to do with that content in fact
explicitly goes against that vision, since the user is no longer in
control.
When you think longer term, about what's good for Fedora, it becomes
clear that restricting users to interact solely with free services
does not further our goal of attracting more users to the platform,
therefore increasing the pool of potential contributors. I *do* think
that for applications which support a mixture of free and non-free
services, the free services should be presented as defaults.
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10-02-2010, 02:37 AM
Adam Williamson
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 20:51 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:36 PM, <herrmann@redhat.com> wrote:
> > How would you define a "proprietary web service"?
> >
> > Is google such a service ? The only open protocol used by connecting any app to any of their servers is http, xmpp etc. Everything behind is closed. So we remove firefox ?
>
> Exactly. We've been down this road. Anything which can view arbitrary
> content can be used to interact with proprietary services. Do we not
> ship the Exchange support for Evolution? Do we not include f-spot (I
> realize it's not in the default spin) because it's able to export to
> Flickr (Shotwell can too, BTW)? Where does it stop?
Those aren't the same thing. When it comes to a twitter client we're not
talking about 'arbitrary content', we're talking about an app whose sole
purpose is to provide *specific* content to a *specific* service. If
pino is neutral between twitter and identi.ca by default, as someone
suggested, then I think it's clearly fine.
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10-02-2010, 03:48 AM
Matthias Clasen
F14: what to do about pino / twitter
On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 16:44 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 01, 2010 at 01:19:52PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 16:07 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> >
> > > > Yeah, if we want to ship one, gwibber is pretty much the only option,
> > > > since it's most likely too late to fix pino before F14 is released. The
> > > > big cons about gwibber, in my opinion is the fairly poor performance
> > > > I've experienced with it (tho I last used it about 2 months ago) and the
> > > > number of dependencies it would pull into the livecd.
> > >
> > > Doesn't post-Beta seem too late to do this? Better to have people
> > > simply use their browser I'd think.
> >
> > well, we have to make *some* kind of post-beta change here, since as I
> > said the current situation blocks the release. I don't think subbing in
> > gwibber for pino is a particularly scary change, all we'd have to check
> > is if it goes over the size limit, and if it works, which is about half
> > an hour of effort.
>
> Right, the uncertainty I have is really around the functionality of
> the new suggested default client, as opposed to "let's not do
> anything." My preference would be a simple removal of pino for no
> other reason than least disturbance of the Force.
I agree that removing pino, together with a suitable note in the release
notes, is the safest route at this point.
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F14: what to do about pino / twitter
