why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

I just had a discussion with Owen about the state of F14+gnome-shell,
and wanted to give an update on why we decided not to try updating it
from the current state (last updated Jul 13), and concentrate on F15
instead.

So most of the development has been happening in git/jhbuild, and we
haven't even managed to get rawhide updated due to the XULRunner
changes (work on rawhide is proceeding now,
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=622896 for the curious).

Now, multiple things would need to occur for F14:
- Separate clutter 1.4 parallel install package
Impact on critical path: None. Sort of ugly is the only thing.

- Updated GTK3 package
Impact on critical path: Low/None (some things in F14 oddly
require gtk3 that shouldn't, like seed...needs investigation). But
we'd *also* have to look at either updating packages like
gnome-desktop3 (or removing them).

- gobject-introspection 0.9.5+
This implies simple rebuilds of a lot of packages for the
lookaside GIR/.typelib data, which is straightforward. However,
updating to this version also implies pulling in a new pygobject,
which has had quite a bit of code changes. Upstream feels confident,
but it's just one thing that weighs against an update (a possible
alternative path is to disable introspection from pygobject).

So the alternative here is:
- Add a warning/note to F14 gnome-shell that it's old and to:
- Make it easier and better to run F15/rawhide. Which involves
fixing the problems there, and scripting the rpm/yum foo better to
make the switch, and being a lot more aggressive about preventing
regressions.
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why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

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On 09/29/2010 09:02 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
> I just had a discussion with Owen about the state of F14+gnome-shell,
> and wanted to give an update on why we decided not to try updating it
> from the current state (last updated Jul 13), and concentrate on F15
> instead.
>
> So most of the development has been happening in git/jhbuild, and we
> haven't even managed to get rawhide updated due to the XULRunner
> changes (work on rawhide is proceeding now,
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=622896 for the curious).
>
> Now, multiple things would need to occur for F14:
> - Separate clutter 1.4 parallel install package
> Impact on critical path: None. Sort of ugly is the only thing.
>
> - Updated GTK3 package
> Impact on critical path: Low/None (some things in F14 oddly
> require gtk3 that shouldn't, like seed...needs investigation). But
> we'd *also* have to look at either updating packages like
> gnome-desktop3 (or removing them).
>
> - gobject-introspection 0.9.5+
> This implies simple rebuilds of a lot of packages for the
> lookaside GIR/.typelib data, which is straightforward. However,
> updating to this version also implies pulling in a new pygobject,
> which has had quite a bit of code changes. Upstream feels confident,
> but it's just one thing that weighs against an update (a possible
> alternative path is to disable introspection from pygobject).
>
> So the alternative here is:
> - Add a warning/note to F14 gnome-shell that it's old and to:
> - Make it easier and better to run F15/rawhide. Which involves
> fixing the problems there, and scripting the rpm/yum foo better to
> make the switch, and being a lot more aggressive about preventing
> regressions.

What about hosting a repos.fp.o for gnome-shell in F14?

- --
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 09:36 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On 09/29/2010 09:02 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
> > So the alternative here is:
> > - Add a warning/note to F14 gnome-shell that it's old and to:
> > - Make it easier and better to run F15/rawhide. Which involves
> > fixing the problems there, and scripting the rpm/yum foo better to
> > make the switch, and being a lot more aggressive about preventing
> > regressions.
>
> What about hosting a repos.fp.o for gnome-shell in F14?

The problem here is that that repository would have to have all the
updates that Colin is saying that we don't want to do now:

- Rebuilds of all the gnome libraries
- New pygobject
- Parallel-installed clutter-14
- Etc.

So it's a repo that would modify systems fairly drastically and would
take a lot of work to maintain. Not infeasible but we do need to
concentrate a lot on F15 in this cycle.

- Owen


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why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

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Hash: SHA1

On 09/29/2010 11:45 AM, Owen Taylor wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 09:36 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
>> On 09/29/2010 09:02 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
>>> So the alternative here is:
>>> - Add a warning/note to F14 gnome-shell that it's old and to:
>>> - Make it easier and better to run F15/rawhide. Which involves
>>> fixing the problems there, and scripting the rpm/yum foo better to
>>> make the switch, and being a lot more aggressive about preventing
>>> regressions.
>>
>> What about hosting a repos.fp.o for gnome-shell in F14?
>
> The problem here is that that repository would have to have all the
> updates that Colin is saying that we don't want to do now:
>
> - Rebuilds of all the gnome libraries
> - New pygobject
> - Parallel-installed clutter-14
> - Etc.
>
> So it's a repo that would modify systems fairly drastically and would
> take a lot of work to maintain. Not infeasible but we do need to
> concentrate a lot on F15 in this cycle.
>
> - Owen
>
>

I envisioned just copies of the f15 change sets being built against f14
and published into an f14 repo. This could be done by somebody not
necessarily being distracted with upstream and f15 tasks.

- --
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

>
> I envisioned just copies of the f15 change sets being built against f14
> and published into an f14 repo. *This could be done by somebody not
> necessarily being distracted with upstream and f15 tasks.
>

I have an up to date legacy-build branch of mutter and gnome-shell
that I will make public once I fix the performance problems with the
new statusIconDispatcher. My branches carry pretty much all the
patches minus the GSettings and updater Introspection stuff. I have
tested it and it builds and runs on F13.

If people want to test Gnome-Shell on F14 this will be available for them.

-Jon
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why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 09/29/2010 11:45 AM, Owen Taylor wrote:
>> On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 09:36 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
>>> On 09/29/2010 09:02 AM, Colin Walters wrote:
>>>> So the alternative here is:
>>>> * - Add a warning/note to F14 gnome-shell that it's old and to:
>>>> * - Make it easier and better to run F15/rawhide. *Which involves
>>>> fixing the problems there, and scripting the rpm/yum foo better to
>>>> make the switch, and being a lot more aggressive about preventing
>>>> regressions.
>>>
>>> What about hosting a repos.fp.o for gnome-shell in F14?
>>
>> The problem here is that that repository would have to have all the
>> updates that Colin is saying that we don't want to do now:
>>
>> *- Rebuilds of all the gnome libraries
>> *- New pygobject
>> *- Parallel-installed clutter-14
>> *- Etc.
>>
>> So it's a repo that would modify systems fairly drastically and would
>> take a lot of work to maintain. Not infeasible but we do need to
>> concentrate a lot on F15 in this cycle.
>>
>> - Owen
>>
>>
>
> I envisioned just copies of the f15 change sets being built against f14
> and published into an f14 repo. *This could be done by somebody not
> necessarily being distracted with upstream and f15 tasks.

Problem with that is that it changes a lot of core libraries and would
likely break the standard desktops for those users that use the 3rd
party repos.

Peter
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why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

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On 9/30/10 1:08 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> I envisioned just copies of the f15 change sets being built against f14
>> > and published into an f14 repo. This could be done by somebody not
>> > necessarily being distracted with upstream and f15 tasks.
> Problem with that is that it changes a lot of core libraries and would
> likely break the standard desktops for those users that use the 3rd
> party repos.

That's kind of the point of having it be a specific gnome3 repo. If the
only way to get updated gnome3 on F14 is to "break" core libraries, than
that's the only way. But when it is in its own repository then people
are /choosing/ to go down that path, instead of winding up on that path
due to something else they wanted from that repository.

- --
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating


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why no new GNOME 3 snapshot in F14?
 

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Jon Nettleton <jon.nettleton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I envisioned just copies of the f15 change sets being built against f14
>> and published into an f14 repo. *This could be done by somebody not
>> necessarily being distracted with upstream and f15 tasks.
>>
>
> I have an up to date legacy-build branch of mutter and gnome-shell
> that I will make public once I fix the performance problems with the
> new statusIconDispatcher.

Just in case you have not noticed it, there is a bug open about it
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630533

(Have not really tired to debug it yet; just reverted the change locally)
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