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Old 09-19-2010, 09:56 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

Hey, everyone. So, it's time for pre-release testing again!

I know this didn't work perfectly for Alpha, but I've got together with
releng and tightened up processes and it should be better for Beta. So:
right now, here:

http://serverbeach1.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/14-Beta.RC2/Live/

you will find live images for all of the desktop spins (KDE, XFCE, LXDE,
Desktop) for RC2 of Fedora 14 Beta. I have tested them, and all four at
least boot in a VM, so they're not completely broken like some of the
Alpha images I also tested KDE and Desktop on bare metal, and I think
Christoph has LXDE booted on bare metal right now, so we're pretty sure
these are working at a basic level. You won't be wasting a download

So with these spins we need to fill out these tables:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Desktop_Test

As you can see, I've made a start on this already, but there's many
tests to fill out. We absolutely need to fill out all the Alpha and Beta
tests for each spin. It would be great to also do the Final tests, as
this gives us a head start on identifying and fixing blocker issues for
the final release.

If people could do some of these tests over the next few days (by
Wednesday) that would be awesome. Also note that I'm running a session
at FUDCon Zurich this afternoon where we'll hopefully be able to get
together and fill out some of the table, so if you're at FUDCon, come
out to my session at 2pm
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 09-19-2010, 10:57 PM
Michael Whapples
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

Hello,
While it may not be what was asked for, there is a problem with the i686
gnome desktop one. When I boot it, wait for the desktop to appear and
then try and launch the orca screen reader http://live.gnome.org/Orca
(press alt+f2 for run and then type orca and press enter) orca fails to
load.

Unfortunately as I rely on orca for output from the system I cannot see
any error message when I launch orca from gnome-terminal. However I can
say the following, I know the sound and text to speech chain is working
from orca as when I give the command "orca -t" from gnome-terminal orca
will go through its text based set up questions providing speech output.
Even after doing the text based set up and logging out and back in orca
still fails to load.

This is a severe accessibility issue.

As I said, being unable to see I cannot get the error message so cannot
proceed with working out the cause, however if someone could try
launching orca (without any options) from gnome-terminal and give me the
output, I can try and find out the cause.

Michael Whapples

On -10/01/37 20:59, Adam Williamson wrote:
> Hey, everyone. So, it's time for pre-release testing again!
>
> I know this didn't work perfectly for Alpha, but I've got together with
> releng and tightened up processes and it should be better for Beta. So:
> right now, here:
>
> http://serverbeach1.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/14-Beta.RC2/Live/
>
> you will find live images for all of the desktop spins (KDE, XFCE, LXDE,
> Desktop) for RC2 of Fedora 14 Beta. I have tested them, and all four at
> least boot in a VM, so they're not completely broken like some of the
> Alpha images I also tested KDE and Desktop on bare metal, and I think
> Christoph has LXDE booted on bare metal right now, so we're pretty sure
> these are working at a basic level. You won't be wasting a download
>
> So with these spins we need to fill out these tables:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Desktop_Test
>
> As you can see, I've made a start on this already, but there's many
> tests to fill out. We absolutely need to fill out all the Alpha and Beta
> tests for each spin. It would be great to also do the Final tests, as
> this gives us a head start on identifying and fixing blocker issues for
> the final release.
>
> If people could do some of these tests over the next few days (by
> Wednesday) that would be awesome. Also note that I'm running a session
> at FUDCon Zurich this afternoon where we'll hopefully be able to get
> together and fill out some of the table, so if you're at FUDCon, come
> out to my session at 2pm
>

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Old 09-19-2010, 11:04 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

On Sun, 2010-09-19 at 23:57 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Hello,
> While it may not be what was asked for, there is a problem with the i686
> gnome desktop one. When I boot it, wait for the desktop to appear and
> then try and launch the orca screen reader http://live.gnome.org/Orca
> (press alt+f2 for run and then type orca and press enter) orca fails to
> load.
>
> Unfortunately as I rely on orca for output from the system I cannot see
> any error message when I launch orca from gnome-terminal. However I can
> say the following, I know the sound and text to speech chain is working
> from orca as when I give the command "orca -t" from gnome-terminal orca
> will go through its text based set up questions providing speech output.
> Even after doing the text based set up and logging out and back in orca
> still fails to load.
>
> This is a severe accessibility issue.
>
> As I said, being unable to see I cannot get the error message so cannot
> proceed with working out the cause, however if someone could try
> launching orca (without any options) from gnome-terminal and give me the
> output, I can try and find out the cause.

Thanks for reporting this. I agree entirely, this is clearly a major
issue for anyone who relies on Orca. Unfortunately we don't capture
accessibility stuff in the release criteria right now, which is an
omission we should fix and I'm sorry about that.

The error I get trying to run orca from a terminal is a Python
traceback:

[adamw@vaioz live]$ orca
Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "atk-bridge": libatk-bridge.so:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

(orca:31286): Bonobo-WARNING **: Bonobo must be initialized before use
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/orca/orca.py", line 2205, in
main
init(pyatspi.Registry)
File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/orca/orca.py", line 1618, in
init
"object:children-changed")
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/registry.py", line 269,
in registerEventListener
self._set_default_registry ()
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/registry.py", line 163,
in _set_default_registry
self._set_registry (MAIN_LOOP_GLIB)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/registry.py", line 134,
in _set_registry
cache = AccessibleCache (app_name)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/cache.py", line 326, in
__init__
self._manager = DesktopCacheManager (self)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/cache.py", line 87, in
__init__
bus = SyncAccessibilityBus (registry.Registry())
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/busutils/bus.py", line
163, in __new__
_bus.BusConnection.__new__ (cls, _get_accessibility_bus_address(),
None)
File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/busutils/bus.py", line
30, in _get_accessibility_bus_address
from Xlib import display, Xatom
ImportError: No module named Xlib

looks like it may wind up being a dependency issue, if the Xlib module
is available somehow; if not, it means orca needs rewriting in some way,
or the module got renamed, or the module hasn't been rebuilt for Python
2.7, or something like that. I will file a bug, mark it as NTH for Beta
RC3, and investigate. Thanks.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

--
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:47 PM
Michael Whapples
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

Hello,
The traceback I think is to do with a change in dependencies between
at-spi and the newer at-spi on dbus (at-spi2). On my debian system
(using at-spi 1.30.1) I just tried to do the import causing the import
error and got that error (orca works fine on this debian system). I then
had a look for the package and found the debian package python-xlib and
once installed the import works fine. Not being very familiar with the
fedora packages I am unsure of the fedora package name but the debian
package says the homepage for the package is http://python-xlib.sf.net.

While I think its not causing the traceback, I am concerned by the GTK
warning about being unable to load the atk-bridge module, as I
understand it this will break accessibility. Did this module get moved
with the at-spi2 change?

Michael Whapples
On -10/01/37 20:59, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-09-19 at 23:57 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> While it may not be what was asked for, there is a problem with the i686
>> gnome desktop one. When I boot it, wait for the desktop to appear and
>> then try and launch the orca screen reader http://live.gnome.org/Orca
>> (press alt+f2 for run and then type orca and press enter) orca fails to
>> load.
>>
>> Unfortunately as I rely on orca for output from the system I cannot see
>> any error message when I launch orca from gnome-terminal. However I can
>> say the following, I know the sound and text to speech chain is working
>> from orca as when I give the command "orca -t" from gnome-terminal orca
>> will go through its text based set up questions providing speech output.
>> Even after doing the text based set up and logging out and back in orca
>> still fails to load.
>>
>> This is a severe accessibility issue.
>>
>> As I said, being unable to see I cannot get the error message so cannot
>> proceed with working out the cause, however if someone could try
>> launching orca (without any options) from gnome-terminal and give me the
>> output, I can try and find out the cause.
>>
> Thanks for reporting this. I agree entirely, this is clearly a major
> issue for anyone who relies on Orca. Unfortunately we don't capture
> accessibility stuff in the release criteria right now, which is an
> omission we should fix and I'm sorry about that.
>
> The error I get trying to run orca from a terminal is a Python
> traceback:
>
> [adamw@vaioz live]$ orca
> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "atk-bridge": libatk-bridge.so:
> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
>
> (orca:31286): Bonobo-WARNING **: Bonobo must be initialized before use
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "<string>", line 1, in<module>
> File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/orca/orca.py", line 2205, in
> main
> init(pyatspi.Registry)
> File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/orca/orca.py", line 1618, in
> init
> "object:children-changed")
> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/registry.py", line 269,
> in registerEventListener
> self._set_default_registry ()
> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/registry.py", line 163,
> in _set_default_registry
> self._set_registry (MAIN_LOOP_GLIB)
> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/registry.py", line 134,
> in _set_registry
> cache = AccessibleCache (app_name)
> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/cache.py", line 326, in
> __init__
> self._manager = DesktopCacheManager (self)
> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/cache.py", line 87, in
> __init__
> bus = SyncAccessibilityBus (registry.Registry())
> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/busutils/bus.py", line
> 163, in __new__
> _bus.BusConnection.__new__ (cls, _get_accessibility_bus_address(),
> None)
> File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyatspi/busutils/bus.py", line
> 30, in _get_accessibility_bus_address
> from Xlib import display, Xatom
> ImportError: No module named Xlib
>
> looks like it may wind up being a dependency issue, if the Xlib module
> is available somehow; if not, it means orca needs rewriting in some way,
> or the module got renamed, or the module hasn't been rebuilt for Python
> 2.7, or something like that. I will file a bug, mark it as NTH for Beta
> RC3, and investigate. Thanks.
>

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Old 09-20-2010, 09:37 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

On Mon, 2010-09-20 at 13:47 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Hello,
> The traceback I think is to do with a change in dependencies between
> at-spi and the newer at-spi on dbus (at-spi2). On my debian system
> (using at-spi 1.30.1) I just tried to do the import causing the import
> error and got that error (orca works fine on this debian system). I then
> had a look for the package and found the debian package python-xlib and
> once installed the import works fine. Not being very familiar with the
> fedora packages I am unsure of the fedora package name but the debian
> package says the homepage for the package is http://python-xlib.sf.net.
>
> While I think its not causing the traceback, I am concerned by the GTK
> warning about being unable to load the atk-bridge module, as I
> understand it this will break accessibility. Did this module get moved
> with the at-spi2 change?

There's an update which fixes the dependency issue:

https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/pyatspi-0.3.91-2.fc14

are you able to test this and see if Orca behaves as it should now?
Thanks!
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

--
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:51 PM
Michael Whapples
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

I haven't managed to test out the specific package as to prepare a
system while orca is broken is a bit hard, but I can confirm just
installing python-xlib (I did the command: yum --assumeyes python-xlib)
does allow orca to run.

However I think there is still a problem somewhere in the accessibility
chain as orca isn't reporting any information on what has focus, etc. As
I said the GTK warning you mentioned does concern me, if atk-bridge
cannot be found then GTK is not going to be providing information to
at-spi (that's my understanding). Someone on the orca list has suggested
setting a gconf key (/desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus to true so
that GTK knows to use that version of atk-bridge.

As a side question, is it possible for me to SSH or something like that,
into the live environment so I possibly can get some of this information
on my own and not have to enter commands just hoping I have typed it
correct?

Michael Whapples
On -10/01/37 20:59, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-09-20 at 13:47 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> The traceback I think is to do with a change in dependencies between
>> at-spi and the newer at-spi on dbus (at-spi2). On my debian system
>> (using at-spi 1.30.1) I just tried to do the import causing the import
>> error and got that error (orca works fine on this debian system). I then
>> had a look for the package and found the debian package python-xlib and
>> once installed the import works fine. Not being very familiar with the
>> fedora packages I am unsure of the fedora package name but the debian
>> package says the homepage for the package is http://python-xlib.sf.net.
>>
>> While I think its not causing the traceback, I am concerned by the GTK
>> warning about being unable to load the atk-bridge module, as I
>> understand it this will break accessibility. Did this module get moved
>> with the at-spi2 change?
>>
> There's an update which fixes the dependency issue:
>
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/pyatspi-0.3.91-2.fc14
>
> are you able to test this and see if Orca behaves as it should now?
> Thanks!
>

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Old 09-21-2010, 03:16 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 15:51:09 +0100,
Michael Whapples <mwhapples@aim.com> wrote:
>
> As a side question, is it possible for me to SSH or something like that,
> into the live environment so I possibly can get some of this information
> on my own and not have to enter commands just hoping I have typed it
> correct?

I doubt the ssh server would be running by default. Maybe boot into level 3,
try starting the ssh service. (I am not sure which spins have sshd installed.)
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:42 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 15:51 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
> I haven't managed to test out the specific package as to prepare a
> system while orca is broken is a bit hard, but I can confirm just
> installing python-xlib (I did the command: yum --assumeyes python-xlib)
> does allow orca to run.
>
> However I think there is still a problem somewhere in the accessibility
> chain as orca isn't reporting any information on what has focus, etc. As
> I said the GTK warning you mentioned does concern me, if atk-bridge
> cannot be found then GTK is not going to be providing information to
> at-spi (that's my understanding). Someone on the orca list has suggested
> setting a gconf key (/desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus to true so
> that GTK knows to use that version of atk-bridge.

I'm definitely worried about this too. It also points up the fact that
we have no accessibility release criteria, which is a bad omission, we
should add some. Would you be available for an off-list discussion to
educate me in a11y stuff so I can write up some criteria?

In RC3, with the orca dependency fixed, orca does run, and we're down to
just one warning at the console on the desktop spin when starting any
GNOME app. I'll investigate that as much as I can when I'm done with
desktop validation testing.

> As a side question, is it possible for me to SSH or something like that,
> into the live environment so I possibly can get some of this information
> on my own and not have to enter commands just hoping I have typed it
> correct?

As Bruno says, I think sshd is not running by default. You'd have to
bring the network up and start sshd before you could connect, I'm
afraid.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 09-21-2010, 03:48 PM
Peter Robinson
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 15:51 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
>> I haven't managed to test out the specific package as to prepare a
>> system while orca is broken is a bit hard, but I can confirm just
>> installing python-xlib (I did the command: yum --assumeyes python-xlib)
>> does allow orca to run.
>>
>> However I think there is still a problem somewhere in the accessibility
>> chain as orca isn't reporting any information on what has focus, etc. As
>> I said the GTK warning you mentioned does concern me, if atk-bridge
>> cannot be found then GTK is not going to be providing information to
>> at-spi (that's my understanding). Someone on the orca list has suggested
>> setting a gconf key (/desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus to true so
>> that GTK knows to use that version of atk-bridge.
>
> I'm definitely worried about this too. It also points up the fact that
> we have no accessibility release criteria, which is a bad omission, we
> should add some. Would you be available for an off-list discussion to
> educate me in a11y stuff so I can write up some criteria?

I think from a couple of bug reports I've seen that some of the
accessibility (not sure how much, to what extent or what desktops) has
been broken for 2-3 releases.

> In RC3, with the orca dependency fixed, orca does run, and we're down to
> just one warning at the console on the desktop spin when starting any
> GNOME app. I'll investigate that as much as I can when I'm done with
> desktop validation testing.
>
>> As a side question, is it possible for me to SSH or something like that,
>> into the live environment so I possibly can get some of this information
>> on my own and not have to enter commands just hoping I have typed it
>> correct?
>
> As Bruno says, I think sshd is not running by default. You'd have to
> bring the network up and start sshd before you could connect, I'm
> afraid.

Its definitely not running by default but I think the firewall rules
allow it by default so you shouldn't have to change those.

Peter
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:01 AM
Michael Whapples
 
Default Fedora 14 Beta RC2 (inc. live) available for desktop testing

Hello,
Yes I would be OK with an off list discussion to help you get to grips
with certain parts of the A11Y stuff. Probably email is the best way to
contact me, but if you want a more instant system like skype or IM, then
I'm in the UK to give you an idea of timezone (we're currently on BST
not GMT).

Michael Whapples
On -10/01/37 20:59, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 15:51 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
>
>> I haven't managed to test out the specific package as to prepare a
>> system while orca is broken is a bit hard, but I can confirm just
>> installing python-xlib (I did the command: yum --assumeyes python-xlib)
>> does allow orca to run.
>>
>> However I think there is still a problem somewhere in the accessibility
>> chain as orca isn't reporting any information on what has focus, etc. As
>> I said the GTK warning you mentioned does concern me, if atk-bridge
>> cannot be found then GTK is not going to be providing information to
>> at-spi (that's my understanding). Someone on the orca list has suggested
>> setting a gconf key (/desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus to true so
>> that GTK knows to use that version of atk-bridge.
>>
> I'm definitely worried about this too. It also points up the fact that
> we have no accessibility release criteria, which is a bad omission, we
> should add some. Would you be available for an off-list discussion to
> educate me in a11y stuff so I can write up some criteria?
>
> In RC3, with the orca dependency fixed, orca does run, and we're down to
> just one warning at the console on the desktop spin when starting any
> GNOME app. I'll investigate that as much as I can when I'm done with
> desktop validation testing.
>
>
>> As a side question, is it possible for me to SSH or something like that,
>> into the live environment so I possibly can get some of this information
>> on my own and not have to enter commands just hoping I have typed it
>> correct?
>>
> As Bruno says, I think sshd is not running by default. You'd have to
> bring the network up and start sshd before you could connect, I'm
> afraid.
>

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