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Old 04-29-2010, 10:35 AM
Jeroen van Meeuwen
 
Default Fuse Workspace Union

Hello there,

I just received a phone call from Stef Bon, a fellow Dutchman who's been
working on a Fuse technology based module to make it easier, and more
transparent, to a user, to mount, navigate and use pluggable storage devices
and network resources like Samba shares.

While Stef is in a better position to describe the project, I'm going to take
a stab at providing a summary. Since Stef wrote a bunch of good documentation
on his project, please allow me to refer you to those pages:

http://linux.bononline.nl/linux/mount.md5key.new/

In short, this type of technology could move the user's desktop experience
forward a great deal as far as navigation experience goes.

For instance, and this is just one of many example scenarios listed in the
documentation, creating a "Shared Folder" for documents and files that all
users on a system can use is a little more difficult on Linux still then it is
on, say, a Windows XP Home edition workstation.

Very much the same goes for navigation to a freshly (automatically) mounted
USB thumb drive, that simply is not mounted within the user's home directory,
but instead causes the user to have to navigate through system folders (e.g.
/media/XXX/), even though a "1.8 GiB Filesystem" might show up in "Places" -if
you use that navigation pane.

Stef would love to increase awareness about his project, and would appreciate
some constructive feedback. I'm glad to be able to make the introductions. I
think Stef's project has a very high potential, and so, if you're interested,
Stef would also appreciate some help in terms of further development.

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:09 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default Fuse Workspace Union

On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 12:35 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> I just received a phone call from Stef Bon, a fellow Dutchman who's been
> working on a Fuse technology based module to make it easier, and more
> transparent, to a user, to mount, navigate and use pluggable storage devices
> and network resources like Samba shares.

>From a quick glance, this is something that gvfs already offers,
user-space filesystems and fuse integration for non-GIO applications.

As far as I know, KDE doesn't have anything like that, which means that
things like AFC kioslave, which was just written, doesn't work
out-of-the-box with libgpod KDE applications.

Cheers

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Old 04-29-2010, 10:04 PM
Bill Peck
 
Default Fuse Workspace Union

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Bastien Nocera <bnocera@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 12:35 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>> Hello there,
>>
>> I just received a phone call from Stef Bon, a fellow Dutchman who's been
>> working on a Fuse technology based module to make it easier, and more
>> transparent, to a user, to mount, navigate and use pluggable storage devices
>> and network resources like Samba shares.
>
> >From a quick glance, this is something that gvfs already offers,
> user-space filesystems and fuse integration for non-GIO applications.

But its a poor implementation, the gvfs-fuse one that is. If you have
an app that doesn't understand the gvfs virtual filesystem (most
don't, even the gnome apps!). Then your only bet is to use .gvfs fuse
dir. But its not easy to find for a normal user. and it doesn't
automount the volumes. So if your photo program has
~/.gvfs/Server/Photos as your photo dir and you launch it without
first mounting it via gnome then it fails or worse yet, removes the
index for all your photos.

What this person has implemented looks like it works and with any app.
>
> As far as I know, KDE doesn't have anything like that, which means that
> things like AFC kioslave, which was just written, doesn't work
> out-of-the-box with libgpod KDE applications.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
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> desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
>
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:01 PM
David Zeuthen
 
Default Fuse Workspace Union

On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 18:04 -0400, Bill Peck wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Bastien Nocera <bnocera@redhat.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 12:35 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
> >> Hello there,
> >>
> >> I just received a phone call from Stef Bon, a fellow Dutchman who's been
> >> working on a Fuse technology based module to make it easier, and more
> >> transparent, to a user, to mount, navigate and use pluggable storage devices
> >> and network resources like Samba shares.
> >
> > >From a quick glance, this is something that gvfs already offers,
> > user-space filesystems and fuse integration for non-GIO applications.
>
> But its a poor implementation, the gvfs-fuse one that is. If you have
> an app that doesn't understand the gvfs virtual filesystem (most
> don't, even the gnome apps!). Then your only bet is to use .gvfs fuse
> dir. But its not easy to find for a normal user. and it doesn't
> automount the volumes. So if your photo program has
> ~/.gvfs/Server/Photos as your photo dir and you launch it without
> first mounting it via gnome then it fails or worse yet, removes the
> index for all your photos.

There are some misconceptions here that needs to be corrected

- Cameras etc. are always automounted when plugged in.

- Apps are *always* passed a POSIX path, never a GVfs URI so
if you open a file/document from e.g. Nautilus things work
just fine and the non-GIO app works.

It is true that we don't currently have a good way of automounting
devices/servers at log-in time (nor keeping bookmarks, recently used
servers etc. list) but that's on the TODO list (see e.g. the server
bookmarks bug) and to be fair, not exactly the common use case right now
(most people don't use file servers). There's a lot of user experience
stuff that needs to be figured out so that's why it's not done yet.

(Btw, FWIW, I really like how this is done in OS X by just dragging a
volume from the Finder's sidebar (or the Desktop) to the "Login Items"
table in their Accounts dialog. It's not very discoverable, though, but
I suppose that could be fixed somehow...)

David


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Old 04-30-2010, 09:47 AM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default Fuse Workspace Union

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 10:08 +0200, Stef Bon wrote:
> 2010/4/29 Bastien Nocera <bnocera@redhat.com>:
> > On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 12:35 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
> >> Hello there,
> >>
> >> I just received a phone call from Stef Bon, a fellow Dutchman who's been
> >> working on a Fuse technology based module to make it easier, and more
> >> transparent, to a user, to mount, navigate and use pluggable storage devices
> >> and network resources like Samba shares.
> >
> > From a quick glance, this is something that gvfs already offers,
> > user-space filesystems and fuse integration for non-GIO applications.
> Well there are some important differences. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the
> Gnome VFS is providing a browing facility for applications, and if you're not a
> Gnome App, and there fore cannot make use of these libaries, you'll
> have to use the
> fuse module.

Non-GIO applications can still browse already mounted sources. Note that
in all of your demos, you're using a file manager to browse those
filesystems. Browsing the file system with a GIO-using file manager
(Thunar or nautilus) would work about the same.

> Mine is completely based on the fuse module (and the automounter to do
> the mounting)
> and does not depend on the desktop environment, it's just a level
> lower: the filesystem.
>
> Second, I'm working on inotify, still thinking how to make it work.
> Does it already work with Gvfs?

Yes. See the g_file_monitor*() functions.

> Futher locking, extended attributes, and seeking in afile is
> supported by mine. Does Gvfs also?

We don't have locking support, but the rest works fine.

> Finally mine lacks good integration with hal (udisk) for local devices
> to export the directory
> where a device is available for the user.

We have that as well.

Cheers

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Old 05-07-2010, 12:47 PM
Jeroen van Meeuwen
 
Default Fuse Workspace Union

Bastien Nocera wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 12:35 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
> > Hello there,
> >
> > I just received a phone call from Stef Bon, a fellow Dutchman who's been
> > working on a Fuse technology based module to make it easier, and more
> > transparent, to a user, to mount, navigate and use pluggable storage
devices
> > and network resources like Samba shares.
>
> >From a quick glance, this is something that gvfs already offers,
> user-space filesystems and fuse integration for non-GIO applications.
>
> As far as I know, KDE doesn't have anything like that, which means that
> things like AFC kioslave, which was just written, doesn't work
> out-of-the-box with libgpod KDE applications.
>

Sorry for responding so late, I had obligations at a Summit in Valencia.

I wanted to say that the Fuse Workspace Union functionality is not the
mounting itself necessarily, but the mounting in proper locations to ease
navigation and such. It's the Workspace union part that I think is most
interesting (I myself have no problems mounting stuff).

-- Jeroen
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