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Old 04-10-2010, 12:30 PM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default gnome-icon-theme: Where have all the icons gone?

I just booted the latest Xfce nightly and I was shocked by the massive
changes in gnome-icon-theme: Instead of 6597 icons as in F12,
gnome-icon-theme now only provides 2434 icons. This means that nearly
all of the icons are missing in Xfce, LXDE and many more applications.

I know the icon naming guidelines have changed a while back, but there
were symbolic links for backwards compatibility. Please bring them back.
It is already to late to fix the huge number of packages that are broken
now and the change was never announced to the other maintainers.

I'd like to kindly remind all maintainers of their responsibility to
"notify others_of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages" [1]. This is
very important thing, there is a whole paragraph about it on the wiki
page. Please honor it!

Please tell me what will happen to gnome-icon-theme now or how the
maintainers are supposed to fix their packages in time for F13.

Regards,
Christoph

[1]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_maintainer_responsibilities#Notify_others_ of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages


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Old 04-10-2010, 06:07 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default gnome-icon-theme: Where have all the icons gone?

On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 14:30 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> I just booted the latest Xfce nightly and I was shocked by the massive
> changes in gnome-icon-theme: Instead of 6597 icons as in F12,
> gnome-icon-theme now only provides 2434 icons. This means that nearly
> all of the icons are missing in Xfce, LXDE and many more applications.
>
> I know the icon naming guidelines have changed a while back, but there
> were symbolic links for backwards compatibility. Please bring them back.
> It is already to late to fix the huge number of packages that are broken
> now and the change was never announced to the other maintainers.
>
> I'd like to kindly remind all maintainers of their responsibility to
> "notify others_of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages" [1]. This is
> very important thing, there is a whole paragraph about it on the wiki
> page. Please honor it.

I have two answers for you. A flippant one and a serious one. Since it
is the weekend, I'll start with the flippant one:

I'm surprised you haven't forked gnome-icon-theme yet and removed all
the symlink bloat yourself. Apparently, fighting bloat in your own
desktop is cool as long as you can rely on somebody elses bloat...


Now the more serious one: Your numbers are wrong.

[mclasen@planemask ~]$ rpm -ql gnome-icon-theme | wc -l
5717



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Old 04-10-2010, 07:34 PM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default gnome-icon-theme: Where have all the icons gone?

Am Samstag, den 10.04.2010, 14:07 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
> On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 14:30 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> > I just booted the latest Xfce nightly and I was shocked by the massive
> > changes in gnome-icon-theme: Instead of 6597 icons as in F12,
> > gnome-icon-theme now only provides 2434 icons. This means that nearly
> > all of the icons are missing in Xfce, LXDE and many more applications.
> >
> > I know the icon naming guidelines have changed a while back, but there
> > were symbolic links for backwards compatibility. Please bring them back.
> > It is already to late to fix the huge number of packages that are broken
> > now and the change was never announced to the other maintainers.
> >
> > I'd like to kindly remind all maintainers of their responsibility to
> > "notify others_of_changes_that_may_affect_their_packages" [1]. This is
> > very important thing, there is a whole paragraph about it on the wiki
> > page. Please honor it.
>
> I have two answers for you. A flippant one and a serious one. Since it
> is the weekend, I'll start with the flippant one:
>
> I'm surprised you haven't forked gnome-icon-theme yet

Thant was a good one indeed!

LXDE does have it's own icon theme, but gnome-icon-theme will be pulled
in anyway due to some weird dependencies. In order to not get too
bloated, I leave lxde-icon-theme out and use GNOME instead.

I also think that all desktops in Fedora should use a common artwork for
a seamless user experience. I might reconsider this as desktop people
have repeatedly changed the GNOME artwork without prior notice and not
even reverted the changes when they were asked to do so by many people
(one of them being the FPL).

> and removed all
> the symlink bloat yourself. Apparently, fighting bloat in your own
> desktop is cool as long as you can rely on somebody elses bloat...

I would love to not depend on someone elses bloat, believe me...

What you consider bloat is needed for cross desktop interoperability.
lxde-icon-theme has even more symlinks:
$ rpm -ql lxde-icon-theme | wc -l
6652

> Now the more serious one: Your numbers are wrong.
>
> [mclasen@planemask ~]$ rpm -ql gnome-icon-theme | wc -l
> 5717

This is gnome-icon-theme-2.30.0-2.fc13. You pushed it to stable just
yesterday, so you should not that it cannot be in the nightly yet. The
nightly still has 2.29.2-3.fc13.

$ rpm -qpl gnome-icon-theme-2.29.2-3.fc13.noarch.rpm | wc -l
2434

Thanks for bringing the legacy icons back, but nether your changelog
entry nor the notes in bodhi mention that, so how is anybody supposed to
know this?

5717 is still a lot less than 6597 (2.28.0-1) and this is the source of
bugs like this one: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573811

Regards,
Christoph

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Old 04-10-2010, 07:53 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default gnome-icon-theme: Where have all the icons gone?

On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 21:34 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:


> 5717 is still a lot less than 6597 (2.28.0-1) and this is the source of
> bugs like this one: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573811

Yeah, symlinks are relatively easy to put back. But if the target went
missing, there's not much I can do. And yes, this cleanup effort
unfortunately landed very late in the 2.30 cycle, and has affected not
just your apps, but GNOME as well.

Anyway, I fully support the effort of the artists behind
gnome-icon-theme. Nobody can support an entirely undocumented and fuzzy
api of 6000+ names and hope to a) ever get another icon theme completed
or b) keep their sanity.

I've asked upstream to put out a clear statement early in the 2.31 cycle
(ie NOW) that henceforth only the icon names guaranteed by the
icon-naming spec can be relied on from gnome-icon-theme. And I am
considering splitting off a -legacy package from gnome-icon-theme in
rawhide, containing all the legacy symlinks.

Part of the complication here is that the integration of the GTK+ stock
system with icon themes currently still relies on these 'legacy'
symlinks as well. For that, see
http://live.gnome.org/GtkNamingSpecInvestigation


Matthias

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Old 04-12-2010, 04:20 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default gnome-icon-theme: Where have all the icons gone?

On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 15:53 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 21:34 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
>
>
> > 5717 is still a lot less than 6597 (2.28.0-1) and this is the source of
> > bugs like this one: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573811
>
> Yeah, symlinks are relatively easy to put back. But if the target went
> missing, there's not much I can do. And yes, this cleanup effort
> unfortunately landed very late in the 2.30 cycle, and has affected not
> just your apps, but GNOME as well.

On this topic, remember that during the release criteria discussion at
FUDCon, desktop team agreed for this to be a criterion:

"All Applications listed in the desktop menus must have icons which have
a consistent appearance and sufficiently high resolution to not appear
blurry"

Consequently, that's in the Final release criteria:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Final_Release_Criteria

which means that if it's not met, the release doesn't go out. So, um, if
this has introduced any cases of missing icons in the system menus, that
will need to be fixed ASAP. On a quick scan through my menus I don't
immediately see any missing icons for apps that would be installed by
default, but I just thought I'd mention it.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 04-12-2010, 09:05 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default gnome-icon-theme: Where have all the icons gone?

> Consequently, that's in the Final release criteria:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Final_Release_Criteria
>
> which means that if it's not met, the release doesn't go out. So, um, if
> this has introduced any cases of missing icons in the system menus, that
> will need to be fixed ASAP. On a quick scan through my menus I don't
> immediately see any missing icons for apps that would be installed by
> default, but I just thought I'd mention it.


Application icons are generally not part of the icon theme.

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