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Old 01-11-2008, 04:08 PM
Ray Strode
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

Hi,

> Currently, we don't install any free flash implementations by default,
> but now that swfdec-gnome has become part of GNOME(1), I would like to
> propose that we install swfdec-gnome (& possibly swfdec-mozilla) by
> default starting with F9.
seems like a no brainer. We try to ship as close to upstream as we
can, and it finally made it upstream.

--Ray

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Old 01-11-2008, 04:12 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 11:45 -0500, Brian Pepple wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Currently, we don't install any free flash implementations by default,
> but now that swfdec-gnome has become part of GNOME(1), I would like to
> propose that we install swfdec-gnome (& possibly swfdec-mozilla) by
> default starting with F9.
>
> (1)
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2008-January/msg00001.html

swfdec-gnome sounds vastly less important/interesting than
swfdec-mozilla.

If it works well enough, I don't see any problem with installing it by
default. The last time I tried swfdec (shortly after it moved over from
livna), sound didn't really work at all for me.

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Old 01-11-2008, 04:16 PM
Brian Pepple
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 12:12 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:

> swfdec-gnome sounds vastly less important/interesting than
> swfdec-mozilla.
>
> If it works well enough, I don't see any problem with installing it by
> default. The last time I tried swfdec (shortly after it moved over from
> livna), sound didn't really work at all for me.

That was probably before I enabled the pulse audio support in Rawhide.

Later,
/B
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:20 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 22:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Matthias Clasen wrote:
> >
> > If it works well enough, I don't see any problem with installing it by
> > default. The last time I tried swfdec (shortly after it moved over from
> > livna), sound didn't really work at all for me.
>
> That was fixed in the most recent update. You should try again.

I will.

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Old 01-11-2008, 04:23 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

Matthias Clasen wrote:


If it works well enough, I don't see any problem with installing it by
default. The last time I tried swfdec (shortly after it moved over from
livna), sound didn't really work at all for me.


That was fixed in the most recent update. You should try again.

Rahul

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Old 01-11-2008, 09:38 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 11:45 -0500, Brian Pepple wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Currently, we don't install any free flash implementations by default,
> but now that swfdec-gnome has become part of GNOME(1), I would like to
> propose that we install swfdec-gnome (& possibly swfdec-mozilla) by
> default starting with F9.

People will go to YouTube, DailyMotion and plenty of other places, and
it won't work because the plugin needs to implement GStreamer's missing
plugins. Then missing plugins will be automatically installed
(hopefully).

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Old 01-12-2008, 05:29 PM
Brian Pepple
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 22:38 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 11:45 -0500, Brian Pepple wrote:
> > Currently, we don't install any free flash implementations by default,
> > but now that swfdec-gnome has become part of GNOME(1), I would like to
> > propose that we install swfdec-gnome (& possibly swfdec-mozilla) by
> > default starting with F9.
>
> People will go to YouTube, DailyMotion and plenty of other places, and
> it won't work because the plugin needs to implement GStreamer's missing
> plugins. Then missing plugins will be automatically installed
> (hopefully).

Yeah, Codeina support (much like totem or rhythmbox has) would need to
be added.

Later,
/B
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:10 PM
Benjamin Otte
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

Brian Pepple <bpepple <at> fedoraproject.org> writes:

> I would like to propose that we [possibly] install ... swfdec-mozilla
> by default starting with F9.
>
As the maintainer of Swfdec, I'd like to add some comments about this option
that should help you decide about this proposal.

The short version is that I would not recommend Swfdec for distro releases that
do a long-term support release. Apart from that, I'd be very happy if
distributions include Swfdec as long as they don't expect a perfect Flash
player.

Swfdec has arrived at a stage where it can be useful to a lot of people. It
plays most smaller Flash files and is often good enough for mid-sized Flash
files, such as the players on the various video sites or Flash games. However
it's also pretty bad on Flash-heavy websites and not very good at playing
Flash 9.

However, there's also some reasons that speak against Swfdec. Swfdec has not
had a lot of exposure yet. I have no clue about how many people use it, but
shipping it by default on a distro such as Fedora would increase that a lot.
And exposure can uncover lots of issues that upstream (we) didn't think about,
such as finding lots of problematic crasher bugs or flooding our bugzilla. I've
experienced this exposure issue once with GStreamer, so I feel pretty well
prepared, but who knows.

Another issue coupled with the above is that the Swfdec plugin runs in-process
in the browser. [1] This of course means that when Swfdec crashes, your browser
is gone, too. However, we're still proud of the Swfdec's stability. But you
have been warned.
Another thing is that Swfdec has never been security audited. We've run it with
tools like zzuf, we've got pretty evil tests in our testsuite, we copy an
existing and proven system, but we're no security experts and Swfdec is 50k
lines of code.

Swfdec is also in heavy development, I tend to call it "surprisingly usable
alpha software". We change a lot of code quickly. (A year ago Swfdec didn't
even play Youtube.) This also means that we currently don't want to support the
current versions eternally. (Probably - like Gnome - we'll actively support it
until the next stable version is released in 6 months.) This is my main reason
for not suggesting it for long-term support releases.

So that being said, I'd be very happy to see you install Swfdec-Mozilla by
default. I'm running it in my default browser since about a year and I didn't
get annoyed at it.

Cheers,
Benjamin


[1]: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9805

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Old 01-16-2008, 02:22 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 15:10 +0000, Benjamin Otte wrote:
> Brian Pepple <bpepple <at> fedoraproject.org> writes:
>
> > I would like to propose that we [possibly] install ... swfdec-mozilla
> > by default starting with F9.
> >
> As the maintainer of Swfdec, I'd like to add some comments about this option
> that should help you decide about this proposal.
>
> The short version is that I would not recommend Swfdec for distro releases that
> do a long-term support release. Apart from that, I'd be very happy if
> distributions include Swfdec as long as they don't expect a perfect Flash
> player.
>
> Swfdec has arrived at a stage where it can be useful to a lot of people. It
> plays most smaller Flash files and is often good enough for mid-sized Flash
> files, such as the players on the various video sites or Flash games. However
> it's also pretty bad on Flash-heavy websites and not very good at playing
> Flash 9.
>
> However, there's also some reasons that speak against Swfdec. Swfdec has not
> had a lot of exposure yet. I have no clue about how many people use it, but
> shipping it by default on a distro such as Fedora would increase that a lot.
> And exposure can uncover lots of issues that upstream (we) didn't think about,
> such as finding lots of problematic crasher bugs or flooding our bugzilla. I've
> experienced this exposure issue once with GStreamer, so I feel pretty well
> prepared, but who knows.
>
> Another issue coupled with the above is that the Swfdec plugin runs in-process
> in the browser. [1] This of course means that when Swfdec crashes, your browser
> is gone, too. However, we're still proud of the Swfdec's stability. But you
> have been warned.
> Another thing is that Swfdec has never been security audited. We've run it with
> tools like zzuf, we've got pretty evil tests in our testsuite, we copy an
> existing and proven system, but we're no security experts and Swfdec is 50k
> lines of code.
>
> Swfdec is also in heavy development, I tend to call it "surprisingly usable
> alpha software". We change a lot of code quickly. (A year ago Swfdec didn't
> even play Youtube.) This also means that we currently don't want to support the
> current versions eternally. (Probably - like Gnome - we'll actively support it
> until the next stable version is released in 6 months.) This is my main reason
> for not suggesting it for long-term support releases.
>
> So that being said, I'd be very happy to see you install Swfdec-Mozilla by
> default. I'm running it in my default browser since about a year and I didn't
> get annoyed at it.
>

Thanks a lot for this perspective, Benjamin.

One thing we can do to get you some exposure is to put swfdec-mozilla in
the default install for the beta. If the deluge of crasher bug reports
turns out to be overwhelming, we'll remove it again for the final
release.

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Old 01-16-2008, 09:05 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default Proposal: Install swfdec by default.

On Jan 16, 2008 6:10 AM, Benjamin Otte <otte@gnome.org> wrote:
> Another issue coupled with the above is that the Swfdec plugin runs in-process
> in the browser. [1]
Even if we use the nspluginwrapper package?

-jef

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