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Old 03-24-2010, 01:12 PM
Colin Walters
 
Default Simple Scan

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 23 March 2010 17:13, Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org> wrote:
>> Should this replace xsane or not?
>
> Yes, please. I've sent the author a patch upstream to add color
> management support, which was impossible to do sanely using xsane.

Done, thanks.

http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=comps.git;a=commit;h=b99407050d6c167fcdbe7176d5 674615a68b92f4
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:04 PM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default Simple Scan

On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 10:12 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 23 March 2010 17:13, Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org> wrote:
> >> Should this replace xsane or not?
> >
> > Yes, please. I've sent the author a patch upstream to add color
> > management support, which was impossible to do sanely using xsane.
>
> Done, thanks.
>
> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=comps.git;a=commit;h=b99407050d6c167fcdbe7176d5 674615a68b92f4

No shit Sherlock. Did you for one second think about that simple-scan is
far from being an xsane replacement? I doubt that simple-scan would let
you scan&fax and I'd be most surprised if it were integrated into image
manipulation apps like gimp.

I know that the XSane UI is rather baroque, and replacing the default
scanning app with simple-scan for your proverbial Aunt Tilly is
sensible. But for some use cases like those mentioned above, or e.g.
scanning transparents where you don't really get around tweaking
gazillions of parameters (exposure, focus, gamma, which frame of the
film you want to have scanned...) if you want decent results, having a
tool that has all these controls is essential.

Completely removing xsane/xsane-gimp from comps was totally uncalled
for, I've added xsane again as optional and xsane-gimp conditional on
gimp. Not seeking my input before doing so was just bad style, I've
repeatedly asked on this list(*) to involve out-of-team-maintainers if
you intend to do something to their components. It's really not that
hard.

(*):
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2008-October/004481.html
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2009-July/005001.html

Nils
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase
Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
nils@redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:14 PM
Colin Walters
 
Default Simple Scan

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Nils Philippsen <nils@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Completely removing xsane/xsane-gimp from comps was totally uncalled
> for, I've added xsane again as optional and xsane-gimp conditional on
> gimp. Not seeking my input before doing so was just bad style, I've
> repeatedly asked on this list(*) to involve out-of-team-maintainers if
> you intend to do something to their components. It's really not that
> hard.

Good point Nils, apologies for that. I'm a bit pressed here trying to
sort out the image and unify the kickstart and comps. xsane was one
of the random exclusions.

We could just make this change for F14 or not make it at all yet; any
other opinions?
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:18 PM
Colin Walters
 
Default Simple Scan

One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I
feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:

https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/apps/search/scanner
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:11 PM
Richard Hughes
 
Default Simple Scan

On 24 March 2010 17:04, Nils Philippsen <nils@redhat.com> wrote:
> No shit Sherlock. Did you for one second think about that simple-scan is
> far from being an xsane replacement? I doubt that simple-scan would let
> you scan&fax and I'd be most surprised if it were integrated into image
> manipulation apps like gimp.

No, it's not a full featured scanning application. It's _simple_ scan,
and works a lot better than xsane for me, and I'm certainly not Aunt
Tilly.

Richard.
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:22 AM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default Simple Scan

On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:14 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Nils Philippsen <nils@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > Completely removing xsane/xsane-gimp from comps was totally uncalled
> > for, I've added xsane again as optional and xsane-gimp conditional on
> > gimp. Not seeking my input before doing so was just bad style, I've
> > repeatedly asked on this list(*) to involve out-of-team-maintainers if
> > you intend to do something to their components. It's really not that
> > hard.
>
> Good point Nils, apologies for that.

Accepted and sorry for harsh words :-).

> I'm a bit pressed here trying to
> sort out the image and unify the kickstart and comps. xsane was one
> of the random exclusions.
>
> We could just make this change for F14 or not make it at all yet; any
> other opinions?

Mind, I'm not against relegating xsane to not being the default, it is
just to complicated for casual users.

As I said, I've made xsane an optional package and xsane-gimp a
conditional based on gimp in comps. This way people that want to have
the stand-alone xsane can choose to do so in the installer and people
that choose gimp get the plugin automatically. For me that's sufficient,
I don't think we need to wait until F-14 for that.

I'd ask of you to put something in the release notes, though, so people
don't get surprised if they don't get xsane per default anymore when
selecting the Graphics group.

Thanks,
Nils
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase
Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
nils@redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:25 AM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default Simple Scan

On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:18 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I
> feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:
>
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/apps/search/scanner

Is that integrated into our package management stuff (yum, PackageKit,
anaconda) somehow? AIUI, pkgdb is primarily for the maintainers, not the
users.

Nils
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase
Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
nils@redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011

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Old 03-25-2010, 07:41 AM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default Simple Scan

On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 21:11 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
> On 24 March 2010 17:04, Nils Philippsen <nils@redhat.com> wrote:
> > No shit Sherlock. Did you for one second think about that simple-scan is
> > far from being an xsane replacement? I doubt that simple-scan would let
> > you scan&fax and I'd be most surprised if it were integrated into image
> > manipulation apps like gimp.
>
> No, it's not a full featured scanning application. It's _simple_ scan,
> and works a lot better than xsane for me, and I'm certainly not Aunt
> Tilly.

I fully agree to that (surprised?). If Colin hadn't removed xsane* from
comps altogether I wouldn't have complained (and that's been amended),
as I'm totally d'accord with casual users getting a simple to use
scanning application. I would even say that people who need the
versatility that xsane offers now deserve a better UI than what it
currently has. Unfortunately nobody has gotten around to pimping xsane
accordingly or writing a replacement yet, at least in FOSS circles.

Nils
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase
Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
nils@redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011

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Old 03-25-2010, 11:56 AM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Simple Scan

On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:25 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:18 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> > One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I
> > feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:
> >
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/apps/search/scanner
>
> Is that integrated into our package management stuff (yum, PackageKit,
> anaconda) somehow? AIUI, pkgdb is primarily for the maintainers, not the
> users.

This is a new face for the pkgdb that will be aimed at users. As for
yum/pk integration: currently, it just gives you rpms to download, from
what I can see, but we certainly hope to make it use the PK browser
plugin, for more seamless integration.

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Old 03-25-2010, 12:40 PM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default Simple Scan

On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 08:56 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:25 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> > On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:18 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> > > One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I
> > > feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:
> > >
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/apps/search/scanner
> >
> > Is that integrated into our package management stuff (yum, PackageKit,
> > anaconda) somehow? AIUI, pkgdb is primarily for the maintainers, not the
> > users.
>
> This is a new face for the pkgdb that will be aimed at users. As for
> yum/pk integration: currently, it just gives you rpms to download, from
> what I can see, but we certainly hope to make it use the PK browser
> plugin, for more seamless integration.

Ah, so the intention is to get it integrated into the tools, but it's
not quite there yet. Is this F-14 material or later?

Nils
--
Nils Philippsen "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase
Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
nils@redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011

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