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Old 02-17-2009, 06:38 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default Linux users want better desktop performance (Screw data. Prioritize code)

Colin Walters (walters@verbum.org) said:
> > http://rudd-o.com/en/linux-and-free-software/tales-from-responsivenessland-why-linux-feels-slow-and-how-to-fix-that
> >
> > What is you comment?
>
> I think if someone proposed a patch which tweaked some kernel
> parameters as part of the desktop kickstart, it'd be reasonable to
> consider. I'd definitely agree with him that the default desktop
> installation should be tuned for responsiveness over throughput.

Well, we could just turn off swap entirely, which obviates the issue
(at the expense of other issues.)

Bill

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Old 02-17-2009, 10:36 PM
Soeren Sandmann Pedersen
 
Default Linux users want better desktop performance (Screw data. Prioritize code)

Bill Nottingham <notting@redhat.com> writes:

> Colin Walters (walters@verbum.org) said:
> > > http://rudd-o.com/en/linux-and-free-software/tales-from-responsivenessland-why-linux-feels-slow-and-how-to-fix-that
> > >
> > > What is you comment?
> >
> > I think if someone proposed a patch which tweaked some kernel
> > parameters as part of the desktop kickstart, it'd be reasonable to
> > consider. I'd definitely agree with him that the default desktop
> > installation should be tuned for responsiveness over throughput.
>
> Well, we could just turn off swap entirely, which obviates the issue
> (at the expense of other issues.)

Systems where I have done that, have generally been thrashing
themselves to death. When there is no swap at all, the kernel can't
move any malloced or otherwise anonymous data to disk, which means
that filebacked data will be competing for fewer and fewer pages as
the amount of available RAM shrinks.

Basically, no swap at all means that a simple memory leak can
completely kill the system.


Soren

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Old 02-19-2009, 07:48 PM
Armin
 
Default Linux users want better desktop performance (Screw data. Prioritize code)

On Friday 20 February 2009 16:18:12 Richard Shaw wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Valent Turkovic
>
> <valent.turkovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Alex de Jong <alexander.dejong@home.nl>
wrote:
> >> That's why I switched to FluxBox. Damn ugly, but fast.
> >> I don't need the fancy blinking windows, sliding menu's or whatever,
> >> But I see your problem: things like BlackBox tend to get too
> >> ugly/unhandy fast...
> >
> > At work I need access to Exchange 2007 server and untill new Gnome
> > comes out with MAPI support I have to run Outlook under windows under
> > Virtualbox.
> >
> > The strange thing is that Firefox was running much faster under
> > virtual machine than one running natively under Linux! I couldn't use
> > native Firefox because somehow it would crawl... until I enabled these
> > new options I saw recommended (vm.swappiness=1 and
> > vm.vfs_cache_pressure=50). Now native running Firefox is as fast as
> > one under virtual machine and I can finally use Firefox on Linux
> > desktop...
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> > --
> > http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/
> > linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless
> > registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org.
> > ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic
> >
> > --
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> > Guidelines:
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
>
> How about a new app: "system-config-performance"? Which would allow
> you to pick from several preconfigured profiles depending on your
> needs or the option to customize those settings.
>
> Just an idea.
>
> Richard

That sounds like a cool idea!

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Old 02-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Roy Bynum
 
Default Linux users want better desktop performance (Screw data. Prioritize code)

Valent Turkovic wrote:

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Valent Turkovic
<valent.turkovic@gmail.com> wrote:


http://rudd-o.com/en/linux-and-free-software/tales-from-responsivenessland-why-linux-feels-slow-and-how-to-fix-that

What is you comment?

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As a long time Linux desktop user and Linux enthusiast I want bloody
screaming fast desktop There are some situations that I just want
to pull my hair out when I see that desktop performance just crawls to
a halt

When I read articles like Tales from responsivenessland[1] I really
don't get why there aren't bells ringing in the heads of the people
who can actually make a difference for Linux desktop performance.

I was also really sad when I read interview with Con Kolivas[2] and
the reasons why he quit kernel development[3].

I hope kernel developers will wake up and realise that there are also
us - Desktop users and what we need and want are responsive desktops.

Will Fedora be the first Linux distro to have sane desktop defaults
(vm.swappiness=1 and vm.vfs_cache_pressure=50). Current Fedora slogan
is "Features. Freedom. Friends. First", I hope to see "Desktop
performance" as part of it soon

[1] http://rudd-o.com/en/linux-and-free-software/tales-from-responsivenessland-why-linux-feels-slow-and-how-to-fix-that
[2] http://apcmag.com/interview_with_con_kolivas_part_1_computing_is_bor ing.htm
[3] http://apcmag.com/why_i_quit_kernel_developer_con_kolivas.htm



Valent may have partially pointed to the issue of performance vs.
features.* As Microsoft users have discovered, the more active
processes that are running and the pipes that interactive data, such as
email and internet, go through, the slower a system will run.* Newer,
more complex (read: amount of code required to be functional)
applications and updates are applied, the perceived performance
continues to degrade. The amount of load on a desktop system has
expanded at a staggering rate.* Virtualization adds its own load to
active desktops as well.* And because of additional security monitoring
processes, older hardware
should not be pushed to perform at the level that it has in the past.



New hardware technology such as higher speed, multi-core processor and
2 and 3 channel memory is becoming more common, which tends to be
better able to handle the expanded processing* and I/O load.* This does
nothing for the majority of Linux users that are used to being able to
use older hardware, yet want the features of the newer applications and
functions.



Desktop performance comes down to a trade off between the perceived
performance and number of active features/processes with the amount of
code to be executed,* based on a common hardware performance.** A
proposed "auto-tunning" I/O manager may provide some assistance, but it
also adds an processing load on the desktop.*



Has anyone done any benchmarking on the amount of code, granularity of
the code, and processing performance?* Has anyone done any benchmarking
of applications and versions that may give some insight on the code
processing vs hardware performance issues?



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Old 02-21-2009, 01:53 PM
James Wilkinson
 
Default Linux users want better desktop performance (Screw data. Prioritize code)

Tom Horsley wrote:
> The "prelinker" is enabled by default because one group of
> geeks want their shared libs to load 10 nanoseconds faster
> (while using 45 hours of cpu in a cron job to achieve that),
> meanwhile the security geeks enable address space randomization
> by default, thus insuring that everything the prelinker does
> will be for naught because none of the libs will ever load
> at the prelinked address.

http://lwn.net/Articles/190139/:

In an attempt to restore some of the benefits of address space
randomization, prelink is capable of randomly selecting the
addresses used for prelinking. This makes it more difficult to
perform certain attacks on a system, because the addresses used are
unique to that system.

In other words, prelinking does address space randomization on a
per-system basis.

Or so I understand – if you have any other sources, I’d be interested to
hear them. This comes from a reputable source and matches my
understanding.

Hope this helps,

James.

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