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Old 01-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

With the F11 alpha coming out in a few days, I think now is a good time
to list a few things that we should look at for the desktop spin in F11:

- Empathy. When we switched back to pidgin as the default im client late
in the F10 cycle, we agreed to reevaluate empathy around the time of the
F11 alpha, and see if the concerns that prevented it from being the
default in F10 have been addressed.

- Brasero. Upstream GNOME is moving towards replacing nautilus-cd-burner
with brasero in 2.26 (following a move that some distros have already
made). Some integration issues clearly still have to be worked out, but
we should consider if we want to follow this in F11, or stay with
nautilus-cd-burner for the time being. Even if we decided to do that,
we'll have to look at possible conflicts if n-c-b and brasero are
installed at the same time.

- CD size. Jeremy informed me that the recent flurry of font packaging
changes seem to have freed up a considerable amount of space on the
desktop spin, to the point where we might even consider shipping OOo
(sans langpacks, of course) instead of abiword. We should look at the
various options for filling the space we have.


Matthias


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Old 01-27-2009, 12:14 AM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 11:32 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> With the F11 alpha coming out in a few days, I think now is a good time
> to list a few things that we should look at for the desktop spin in F11:

There's also the case of the fingerprint integration. Right now, I don't
think anything is pulling fprintd-pam into the media. Could you please
make sure it gets added to the disc?

If this just requires some changes in comps, I'll be happy to do those
myself.

FYI, for testers with a bit of free time:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Fingerprint#Release_Notes
Also be sure to read the known issues section:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Fingerprint#Known_issues

Cheers

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Old 01-27-2009, 12:29 AM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 01:14 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 11:32 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > With the F11 alpha coming out in a few days, I think now is a good time
> > to list a few things that we should look at for the desktop spin in F11:
>
> There's also the case of the fingerprint integration. Right now, I don't
> think anything is pulling fprintd-pam into the media. Could you please
> make sure it gets added to the disc?
>
> If this just requires some changes in comps, I'll be happy to do those
> myself.

making fprintd-pam installed by default in whatever comps group it is
should bring it on the live cd. Alternatively, we can force it in via
the kickstart file, but I think the comps way is preferable.

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Old 01-27-2009, 06:45 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

Matthias Clasen wrote:

- Empathy. When we switched back to pidgin as the default im client late
in the F10 cycle, we agreed to reevaluate empathy around the time of the
F11 alpha, and see if the concerns that prevented it from being the
default in F10 have been addressed.


Won't comment about this, myself I am forced to use Yahoo as the primary
IM transport, so Empathy is useless for me, but I know I am a corner case.



- Brasero. Upstream GNOME is moving towards replacing nautilus-cd-burner
with brasero in 2.26 (following a move that some distros have already
made). Some integration issues clearly still have to be worked out, but
we should consider if we want to follow this in F11, or stay with
nautilus-cd-burner for the time being. Even if we decided to do that,
we'll have to look at possible conflicts if n-c-b and brasero are
installed at the same time.


Brasero was recently upgraded in F10 from 0.82 to 0.84 and I find its
new user interface much better, from an user point of view it would not
be bad as a default. I personally prefer it as a default instead of
n-c-b, but that is mostly because I need some of its advanced features.



- CD size. Jeremy informed me that the recent flurry of font packaging
changes seem to have freed up a considerable amount of space on the
desktop spin, to the point where we might even consider shipping OOo
(sans langpacks, of course) instead of abiword. We should look at the
various options for filling the space we have.


If we have the space available, instead of one single application (well,
OOo is not just a single application but...) we can include a few more
smaller ones, like Inkscape and something else. Or some freely licensed
multimedia content.


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/

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Old 01-27-2009, 06:55 AM
Peter Gordon
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 11:32 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> - Empathy. When we switched back to pidgin as the default im client late
> in the F10 cycle, we agreed to reevaluate empathy around the time of the
> F11 alpha, and see if the concerns that prevented it from being the
> default in F10 have been addressed.

One of the major concerns was file-transfer support. That was recently
merged into trunk and is in the current 2.25-series releases. My
understanding is that this is still Jabber/XMPP-only though (Gabble
backend); but one thing that comes to mind is that Haze (and protocols
through it, such as MSN) currently still does not support this well.

The account-management window has been cleaned up quite a bit too.
Especially, many more of the login details for creating a new account
are guessed based on the account type and automagically filled in.

Setting one's personal avatar image as well as calling with VoIP are
still a bit hit-or-miss, unfortunately. All told, it has definitely made
a significant amount of progress (thanks, Xavier and team!) but it may
still be a bit too rough around the edges, so to speak, to be the
default in F11.

I propose that we *do* have it as default for the Alpha and Beta and if
it comes to a point, similar to the F10 trials, where it's still too
rough, that we can simply fallback (again) to Pidgin for another
release. I sincerely hope that this is not the case, though. ;-)

> - Brasero. Upstream GNOME is moving towards replacing nautilus-cd-burner
> with brasero in 2.26 (following a move that some distros have already
> made). Some integration issues clearly still have to be worked out, but
> we should consider if we want to follow this in F11, or stay with
> nautilus-cd-burner for the time being. Even if we decided to do that,
> we'll have to look at possible conflicts if n-c-b and brasero are
> installed at the same time.

I've not followed the upstream discussion on this as closely as I'd have
liked. However, from what I understand, most of the work has gone into
replacing the backend n-c-b library with libbrasero-media and friends.
It stills seems rather incomplete though. According to the patches in
various upstream GNOME bug reports (such as the one for Rhythmbox [1]),
it merely creates the appropriate playlist file and passes that the
Brasero application.

For the record, I **HATE** [2] having a seperate application for burning
CDs/DVDs (a la Windows and some OS X programs). This type of
functionality just does away with the whole "do one thing really well"
Unix model to me. The applicable capabilities should be inherent to the
application being used for that media. For example, with Rhythmbox
currently, burning a CD is as easy as dragging the songs you want to
their own playlist and then selecting "Create Audio CD..." from that
playlist's context menu (or "Burn" in the main toolbar).

I would love it if it is intended to be used as a backend library, such
that applications could call to it for CD-burning stuff (a la what I
think libburn tried to accomplish); but it should not be a do-all burner
application in its own right IMNSHO.

[1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=536732

> - CD size. Jeremy informed me that the recent flurry of font packaging
> changes seem to have freed up a considerable amount of space on the
> desktop spin, to the point where we might even consider shipping OOo
> (sans langpacks, of course) instead of abiword. We should look at the
> various options for filling the space we have.

As beneficial as OO.org may be on the disc, perhaps we could instead add
a few games or "killer apps" which showcase the potential of F/OSS?

Though, offhand, I have no idea what those would be...

Thanks, and regards.
--
Peter Gordon (codergeek42) <peter@thecodergeek.com>
Who am I? :: http://www.thecodergeek.com/about-me



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Old 01-27-2009, 07:06 AM
Peter Gordon
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 11:32 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> - Empathy. When we switched back to pidgin as the default im client late
> in the F10 cycle, we agreed to reevaluate empathy around the time of the
> F11 alpha, and see if the concerns that prevented it from being the
> default in F10 have been addressed.

Another huge issue with the transition was that there was no easy way to
migrate accounts from Pidgin, In recent releases, there is now an
"Import Accounts" button to the accounts dialog which automagically
imports login information from Pidgin. (I have tested this successfully
on Fedora 10 with rawhide Empathy/Telepathy packages, and AIM, Yahoo!
IM, Jabber, and GoogleTalk all were imported nicely).

That should definitely make things a lot simpler for new users who would
be hesitant because of the necessity to re-create a lot of account info.
--
Peter Gordon (codergeek42) <peter@thecodergeek.com>
Who am I? :: http://www.thecodergeek.com/about-me



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Old 01-27-2009, 07:13 AM
Peter Gordon
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:45 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Won't comment about this, myself I am forced to use Yahoo as the primary
> IM transport, so Empathy is useless for me, but I know I am a corner case.

Yahoo! IM _should_ work with the Haze telepathy backend (conversations
and such, at the very least). If it doesn't, Bugzilla is the place to
be!
--
Peter Gordon (codergeek42) <peter@thecodergeek.com>
Who am I? :: http://www.thecodergeek.com/about-me



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Old 01-27-2009, 07:25 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

Peter Gordon wrote:

On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:45 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
Won't comment about this, myself I am forced to use Yahoo as the primary
IM transport, so Empathy is useless for me, but I know I am a corner case.


Yahoo! IM _should_ work with the Haze telepathy backend (conversations
and such, at the very least). If it doesn't, Bugzilla is the place to
be!


I know that, but Haze uses the Pidgin core, libpurple, so then why not
use Pidgin instead? It has a better coverage of features anyway.


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/

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Old 01-27-2009, 07:45 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

Peter Gordon wrote:

On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 11:32 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:

- Empathy. When we switched back to pidgin as the default im client late
in the F10 cycle, we agreed to reevaluate empathy around the time of the
F11 alpha, and see if the concerns that prevented it from being the
default in F10 have been addressed.


Another huge issue with the transition was that there was no easy way to
migrate accounts from Pidgin, In recent releases, there is now an
"Import Accounts" button to the accounts dialog which automagically
imports login information from Pidgin. (I have tested this successfully
on Fedora 10 with rawhide Empathy/Telepathy packages, and AIM, Yahoo!
IM, Jabber, and GoogleTalk all were imported nicely).

That should definitely make things a lot simpler for new users who would
be hesitant because of the necessity to re-create a lot of account info.


Account information is usually small and can be recreated. What about
chat logs, preferences etc?


Rahul

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Old 01-27-2009, 08:03 AM
Peter Gordon
 
Default Alpha checkpoint

On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 14:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Account information is usually small and can be recreated. What about
> chat logs, preferences etc?

Those are not yet being imported, from what I can tell through the
source code (src/empathy-import-pidgin.c and friends). It's only login
details at the moment.

However, the fact that they *can* be quickly recreated should not make
that a necessity when they're already stored, just in a different
application. (I, for one, used only Gaim/Pidgin for so long with my AIM
account until I found Empathy that I had completely forgot what my
password was, and had to reset it through the web/email interface.)
--
Peter Gordon (codergeek42) <peter@thecodergeek.com>
Who am I? :: http://www.thecodergeek.com/about-me



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