Nils Philippsen wrote:

On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 10:25 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:


Hate to bring this, but Gimp is not a GNOME project.


http://www.gnome.org/projects/ seems to suggest the opposite... ;-)


Well, that is a list of "GNOME-related projects".
OTOH, no mention of GNOME here: http://gimp.org/about/introduction.html


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On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 14:18 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Nils Philippsen wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 10:25 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> >
> >> Hate to bring this, but Gimp is not a GNOME project.
> >
> > http://www.gnome.org/projects/ seems to suggest the opposite... ;-)
>
> Well, that is a list of "GNOME-related projects".
> OTOH, no mention of GNOME here: http://gimp.org/about/introduction.html

I guess this comes from GIMP pre-dating GNOME by some time and boils
down to the question of what makes something a "GNOME project" -- it
uses GNOME infrastructure FWIW.

In the short time I spent on it I've not found a list of components that
are officially considered "GNOME" when put together, though.

Nils
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Nils Philippsen wrote:

On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 14:18 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:

Nils Philippsen wrote:

On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 10:25 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:

Hate to bring this, but Gimp is not a GNOME project.

http://www.gnome.org/projects/ seems to suggest the opposite... ;-)

Well, that is a list of "GNOME-related projects".
OTOH, no mention of GNOME here: http://gimp.org/about/introduction.html


I guess this comes from GIMP pre-dating GNOME by some time and boils
down to the question of what makes something a "GNOME project" -- it
uses GNOME infrastructure FWIW.

In the short time I spent on it I've not found a list of components that
are officially considered "GNOME" when put together, though.


I know is pointless to continue with this, but I can't stop myself
(found a better link): http://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#Gnome


Is true that GIMP uses a lot of GNOME resources, but it still retains
its independence, this is why is not likely to expect them to have
synchronized library dependencies (like WebKit) or release dates.


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On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 12:39 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> I can deactivate the internal help browser in GIMP, it currently has
> stability issues anyway. Then it should use the external default browser
> for displaying help (I don't know if we ship gimp-help in the live media
> at all). Alternatively, I can split off the internal help browser so we
> can leave that out on live media -- it should be installed on normal
> installations though because (once it's not crashing) it's much faster
> at startup than say firefox.

Is it faster than a new tab? Since while it may be faster to start
without firefox already running, I suspect that most people already hvae
firefox running most of the time

Jeremy

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On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 12:39 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote:

> > E.g the new gimp now pulls in WebKit-gtk.
>
> I can deactivate the internal help browser in GIMP, it currently has
> stability issues anyway. Then it should use the external default browser
> for displaying help (I don't know if we ship gimp-help in the live media
> at all). Alternatively, I can split off the internal help browser so we
> can leave that out on live media -- it should be installed on normal
> installations though because (once it's not crashing) it's much faster
> at startup than say firefox.

Splitting the help browser off sounds like a great idea, since we are
not shipping the gimp-help on the live cd anyway, as you say.

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On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 09:18 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> Cool, good work. Would it be possible to actually run the images and see
> if if they boot? All it would need is starting the image in qemu and
> then getting the image to ping/send a file/ssh the host, and then we can
> kill the image. Potentially we could run this script nightly on a while
> load of different architectures.
>
> If you post the scripts, I'll see what I can do.

There are no scripts yet since I'm still doing things by hand until
we're happy with the results.

Attempting to boot them is going to be a little harder. These compose
attempts will be running within a Xen guest, so I wouldn't be able to
make use of say KVM to boot them, and we don't have a lab of test
machines in the PHX infrastructure to do QA like tasks like this. We
have a long term goal for this, but it's just not there right now.

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On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 17:26 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:

>
> I'm no good with html, so when it comes time to script this up, I'll be
> looking for some help to make this page a bit more useful, and also I'm
> looking for input on what you'd like to see on these pages.

Things I would like to see are:

- full list of packages with sizes
- lists of new/removed packages compared to the beta/last snapshot
- list of size changes for all packages (including shrinkage) compare to
last snapshot. This list would imo be more useful, if the size change
was given in absolute terms and the list were sorted by size change. The
relative change you are showing now is not really helpful in finding the
big offenders, since 50% of a tiny package is still irrelevant.

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On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 15:57 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Nils Philippsen wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 14:18 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> >> Nils Philippsen wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 10:25 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> >>>> Hate to bring this, but Gimp is not a GNOME project.
> >>> http://www.gnome.org/projects/ seems to suggest the opposite... ;-)
> >> Well, that is a list of "GNOME-related projects".
> >> OTOH, no mention of GNOME here: http://gimp.org/about/introduction.html
> >
> > I guess this comes from GIMP pre-dating GNOME by some time and boils
> > down to the question of what makes something a "GNOME project" -- it
> > uses GNOME infrastructure FWIW.
> >
> > In the short time I spent on it I've not found a list of components that
> > are officially considered "GNOME" when put together, though.
>
> I know is pointless to continue with this, but I can't stop myself
> (found a better link): http://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#Gnome

Point taken ;-). I seem to remember though that once upon a time GIMP
was listed as part of GNOME (when a new GNOME version was announced, by
the GNOME people -- maybe there's a different POV on this from both
projects...).

> Is true that GIMP uses a lot of GNOME resources, but it still retains
> its independence, this is why is not likely to expect them to have
> synchronized library dependencies (like WebKit) or release dates.

Agreed.

Nils
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Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
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On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 09:02 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 12:39 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> > I can deactivate the internal help browser in GIMP, it currently has
> > stability issues anyway. Then it should use the external default browser
> > for displaying help (I don't know if we ship gimp-help in the live media
> > at all). Alternatively, I can split off the internal help browser so we
> > can leave that out on live media -- it should be installed on normal
> > installations though because (once it's not crashing) it's much faster
> > at startup than say firefox.
>
> Is it faster than a new tab? Since while it may be faster to start
> without firefox already running, I suspect that most people already hvae
> firefox running most of the time

With a running firefox it doesn't make much difference, but an external
web browser likely doesn't have the table-of-contents tree beside the
actual help content that the built-in browser has.

Users that prefer an external browser can configure GIMP that way.

Nils
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On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 10:13 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 12:39 +0200, Nils Philippsen wrote:
>
> > > E.g the new gimp now pulls in WebKit-gtk.
> >
> > I can deactivate the internal help browser in GIMP, it currently has
> > stability issues anyway. Then it should use the external default browser
> > for displaying help (I don't know if we ship gimp-help in the live media
> > at all). Alternatively, I can split off the internal help browser so we
> > can leave that out on live media -- it should be installed on normal
> > installations though because (once it's not crashing) it's much faster
> > at startup than say firefox.
>
> Splitting the help browser off sounds like a great idea, since we are
> not shipping the gimp-help on the live cd anyway, as you say.

2.6.0-3 has the help browser splitt off into gimp-help-browser. I've
added obsolete lines so that package upgrades from older versions will
pull in the browser subpackage, as well as adding this to comps for F10.

Nils
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Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
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