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Old 09-24-2008, 01:29 AM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:

For the former, it can be possible as long more people participate. For
the latter, upstream gnome can be "echofied" following the guideline[3].


Is it realistic to expect this to happen?

~m

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Old 09-24-2008, 02:04 AM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 18:22 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:
> Bill Nottingham a écrit :
> > Looking at the desktop now (beta), I see:
> >
> > - at least three different icon perspectives in the stock menus
> > (echo, 'stock', bluecurve)
> >
> I think Bluecurve mix are desktop bug. Current Fedora default theme used
> Bluecurve from some applications, same issue occurs on all icons theme.
> > - nearly all 'upstream' gnome apps using non-echo style icons

Please point out where we still have bluecurve icons in the default
install. I don't see how that would happen. The inheritance of the
Fedora icon theme in rawhide is:

Fedora - Echo - Mist - gnome (- hicolor)

Bluecurve doesn't come into play. Unfortunately, we still have to
install Bluecurve by default, for the cursor theme. Longer-term, it
might be worthwhile to find a newer, separately packaged cursor theme to
use instead of the aging Bluecurve cursors.


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Old 09-24-2008, 02:09 AM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

Matthias Clasen wrote:

On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 18:22 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:

Bill Nottingham a écrit :

Looking at the desktop now (beta), I see:

- at least three different icon perspectives in the stock menus
(echo, 'stock', bluecurve)


I think Bluecurve mix are desktop bug. Current Fedora default theme used
Bluecurve from some applications, same issue occurs on all icons theme.

- nearly all 'upstream' gnome apps using non-echo style icons


Please point out where we still have bluecurve icons in the default
install. I don't see how that would happen. The inheritance of the
Fedora icon theme in rawhide is:

Fedora - Echo - Mist - gnome (- hicolor)


I have seen bluecurve icons in rawhide's applications menu, but I think
they are there because the 'upstream' apps use bluecurve style icons.
For example, the SELinux Troubleshooter and the SELinux Management Tool.
I think those should either be replaced with Echo icons or overrided
with Echo icons when Echo is installed, right?


~m

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Old 09-24-2008, 02:13 AM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 22:09 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 18:22 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:
> >> Bill Nottingham a écrit :
> >>> Looking at the desktop now (beta), I see:
> >>>
> >>> - at least three different icon perspectives in the stock menus
> >>> (echo, 'stock', bluecurve)
> >>>
> >> I think Bluecurve mix are desktop bug. Current Fedora default theme used
> >> Bluecurve from some applications, same issue occurs on all icons theme.
> >>> - nearly all 'upstream' gnome apps using non-echo style icons
> >
> > Please point out where we still have bluecurve icons in the default
> > install. I don't see how that would happen. The inheritance of the
> > Fedora icon theme in rawhide is:
> >
> > Fedora - Echo - Mist - gnome (- hicolor)
>
> I have seen bluecurve icons in rawhide's applications menu, but I think
> they are there because the 'upstream' apps use bluecurve style icons.
> For example, the SELinux Troubleshooter and the SELinux Management Tool.
> I think those should either be replaced with Echo icons or overrided
> with Echo icons when Echo is installed, right?
>

Oh, yeah. Good point.

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Old 09-24-2008, 06:05 AM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 17:53 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> When we approved Echo as the default icon theme for F10, I was under the
> assumption that this was already more or less known as a feature to the
> Desktop group, and they were OK with the coverage provided and the
> experience given. Is that the case?
>
No, they weren't OK with the current coverage (at least Matthias Clasen)
and we are working hard to improve it.

> Looking at the desktop now (beta), I see:
>
> - at least three different icon perspectives in the stock menus
> (echo, 'stock', bluecurve)
With Mist, there are still new gnome styled icons, old gnome styled
icons and bluecurve. In some places we reduced the old gnome and
bluecurve to minimum, in others not yet. Check the System ->
Administration menu as an example.

> - nearly all 'upstream' gnome apps using non-echo style icons
> - an immediate disconnect between the perspective of the stock
> icons and the perspective of the main menu logo
>
> It also appears to me that the Echo icons scale to menu size I'm
> using (24) much worse than the prior icons.
>
> Are we planning to address these issues, either by increasing the
> Echo icon coverage, or changing various apps to point to system
> icons provided by Echo?
>
Yep. If you feel some particular icon is missing, it's need-to-have and
is not on our todo [1], feel free to ping us about it.

> Bill
>
Our general idea is that some time around the final freeze it will be
decided by art and desktop teams whether we are ready. If not, echo will
be pulled back and submitted again for F11. I'd be for voting, enabled
for art and desktop fas groups members regarding this issue.

Martin
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:05 AM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 17:53 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> When we approved Echo as the default icon theme for F10, I was under the
> assumption that this was already more or less known as a feature to the
> Desktop group, and they were OK with the coverage provided and the
> experience given. Is that the case?
>
No, they weren't OK with the current coverage (at least Matthias Clasen)
and we are working hard to improve it.

> Looking at the desktop now (beta), I see:
>
> - at least three different icon perspectives in the stock menus
> (echo, 'stock', bluecurve)
With Mist, there are still new gnome styled icons, old gnome styled
icons and bluecurve. In some places we reduced the old gnome and
bluecurve to minimum, in others not yet. Check the System ->
Administration menu as an example.

> - nearly all 'upstream' gnome apps using non-echo style icons
> - an immediate disconnect between the perspective of the stock
> icons and the perspective of the main menu logo
>
> It also appears to me that the Echo icons scale to menu size I'm
> using (24) much worse than the prior icons.
>
> Are we planning to address these issues, either by increasing the
> Echo icon coverage, or changing various apps to point to system
> icons provided by Echo?
>
Yep. If you feel some particular icon is missing, it's need-to-have and
is not on our todo [1], feel free to ping us about it.

> Bill
>
Our general idea is that some time around the final freeze it will be
decided by art and desktop teams whether we are ready. If not, echo will
be pulled back and submitted again for F11. I'd be for voting, enabled
for art and desktop fas groups members regarding this issue.

Martin
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:23 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

Matthias Clasen wrote:


I'm the last desktop team member on fedora-art-list, but I'm not a
representative, and I have no way to reconcile the wildly varying
opinions inside the desktop team when it comes to style and quality of
the default icon theme.


But I promise you, we don't bite... I invite more people from the
desktop team to the art list, we are doing a lot of things related to
the desktop so your input would be really useful.


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

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Old 09-24-2008, 06:23 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

Matthias Clasen wrote:


I'm the last desktop team member on fedora-art-list, but I'm not a
representative, and I have no way to reconcile the wildly varying
opinions inside the desktop team when it comes to style and quality of
the default icon theme.


But I promise you, we don't bite... I invite more people from the
desktop team to the art list, we are doing a lot of things related to
the desktop so your input would be really useful.


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

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Old 09-24-2008, 06:26 AM
Luya Tshimbalanga
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

Quoting Máirín Duffy <mairin@linuxgrrl.com>:


> Is it realistic to expect this to happen?
>
Anything that thought to be unrealistic can happen. =)

--
Luya Tshimbalanga
Fedora Project contributor

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Old 09-24-2008, 06:54 AM
Luya Tshimbalanga
 
Default Echo vs the destkop

Quoting Matthias Clasen <mclasen@redhat.com>:

> On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 22:09 -0400, MáirÃ*n Duffy wrote:
> > Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 18:22 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:
> > >> Bill Nottingham a écrit :
> > >>> Looking at the desktop now (beta), I see:
> > >>>
> > >>> - at least three different icon perspectives in the stock menus
> > >>> (echo, 'stock', bluecurve)
> > >>>
> > >> I think Bluecurve mix are desktop bug. Current Fedora default theme used
> > >> Bluecurve from some applications, same issue occurs on all icons theme.
> > >>> - nearly all 'upstream' gnome apps using non-echo style icons
> > >
> > > Please point out where we still have bluecurve icons in the default
> > > install. I don't see how that would happen. The inheritance of the
> > > Fedora icon theme in rawhide is:
> > >
> > > Fedora - Echo - Mist - gnome (- hicolor)
> >
> > I have seen bluecurve icons in rawhide's applications menu, but I think
> > they are there because the 'upstream' apps use bluecurve style icons.
> > For example, the SELinux Troubleshooter and the SELinux Management Tool.
> > I think those should either be replaced with Echo icons or overrided
> > with Echo icons when Echo is installed, right?
> >
>
> Oh, yeah. Good point.
>

*Writin for OLPC XO*,There are reported bugs related to hardcoded icons for
system-config* that have not been addressed via Bugzilla. Echo is using symlink
as workaround.


--
Luya Tshimbalanga
Fedora Project contributor
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga

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