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-   -   i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-desktop/164581-i686-likely-x86_64-live-image-not-fitting-cd.html)

Jesse Keating 09-23-2008 02:27 AM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 18:08 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 17:56 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > http://jkeating.fedorapeople.org/alpha2beta-live-diff has a listing of
> > the package differences between Alpha and Beta. I would really
> > appreciate some help looking for something to cut for size, since you
> > guys are supposed to own this config now.
>
> Herm. this may actually be a diff of the Education-Math live image to
> the Alpha Desktop image. I made a mistake somewhere. I'm re-creating
> the Desktop image, although they share many of the same packages.

I fixed the diff. It is now correct, and we're still 43 megs oversize.

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Brian Pepple 09-23-2008 02:51 AM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 19:27 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 18:08 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 17:56 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > > http://jkeating.fedorapeople.org/alpha2beta-live-diff has a listing of
> > > the package differences between Alpha and Beta. I would really
> > > appreciate some help looking for something to cut for size, since you
> > > guys are supposed to own this config now.
> >
> > Herm. this may actually be a diff of the Education-Math live image to
> > the Alpha Desktop image. I made a mistake somewhere. I'm re-creating
> > the Desktop image, although they share many of the same packages.
>
> I fixed the diff. It is now correct, and we're still 43 megs oversize.

If empathy didn't have a hard requires on some of it's plugins, like
telepathy-haze (which pulls in libpurple) that would drop 20MB or more.
IMO, the only hard-requires for empathy should probably be
telepathy-gabble (XMMP) & telepathy-salut (local-link XMMP), the rest we
should give a hard look at what we want to use a default in comps to
reduce some of the bloat.

Later,
/B
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Matthias Clasen 09-23-2008 03:07 AM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 19:27 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 18:08 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 17:56 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > > http://jkeating.fedorapeople.org/alpha2beta-live-diff has a listing of
> > > the package differences between Alpha and Beta. I would really
> > > appreciate some help looking for something to cut for size, since you
> > > guys are supposed to own this config now.
> >
> > Herm. this may actually be a diff of the Education-Math live image to
> > the Alpha Desktop image. I made a mistake somewhere. I'm re-creating
> > the Desktop image, although they share many of the same packages.
>
> I fixed the diff. It is now correct, and we're still 43 megs oversize.

An easy win is to exclude gnome-games-help.

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Peter Gordon 09-23-2008 03:57 AM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 22:51 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote:
> If empathy didn't have a hard requires on some of it's plugins, like
> telepathy-haze (which pulls in libpurple) that would drop 20MB or more.
> IMO, the only hard-requires for empathy should probably be
> telepathy-gabble (XMMP) & telepathy-salut (local-link XMMP), the rest we
> should give a hard look at what we want to use a default in comps to
> reduce some of the bloat.

I do agree that this adds a hefty chunk of size to the image; but if we
do not keep the Haze and other telepathy stack components in it, then it
becomes a severe regression from previous releases' Live images, which
I'd also dislike to have happen. :-/

The gnome-games-help package is fairly big for this (nearly half of what
we need to free up); is this strictly required for the LiveCD?

--Peter
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Brian Pepple 09-23-2008 04:21 AM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 20:57 -0700, Peter Gordon wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 22:51 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote:
> > If empathy didn't have a hard requires on some of it's plugins, like
> > telepathy-haze (which pulls in libpurple) that would drop 20MB or more.
> > IMO, the only hard-requires for empathy should probably be
> > telepathy-gabble (XMMP) & telepathy-salut (local-link XMMP), the rest we
> > should give a hard look at what we want to use a default in comps to
> > reduce some of the bloat.
>
> I do agree that this adds a hefty chunk of size to the image; but if we
> do not keep the Haze and other telepathy stack components in it, then it
> becomes a severe regression from previous releases' Live images, which
> I'd also dislike to have happen. :-/

That's why I said we should look at what to include in the comps, and
not put hard requires in the spec. ;)

And there *are* going to be regressions in features even with tp-haze.
Empathy won't be able to do things like file-transfers, etc, that Pidgin
currently supports.

Later,
/B
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Peter Gordon 09-23-2008 04:40 AM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 00:21 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote:
> That's why I said we should look at what to include in the comps, and
> not put hard requires in the spec. ;)
>
Hmm; but if we put it in comps, it's still going to be included anyway;
so in terms of saving space I don't really a difference, tbh.

> And there *are* going to be regressions in features even with tp-haze.
> Empathy won't be able to do things like file-transfers, etc, that Pidgin
> currently supports.

Well, regressions are an unfortunate necessity sometimes; but when they
can be readily minimized, I'd prefer that be the case. ;)
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Adam Jackson 09-23-2008 02:09 PM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 17:56 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> I'm less concerned about x86_64 for Beta, but i686 not fitting on a CD
> is a stop ship. We're 43~megs over size. That's not a small amount.
> This may have been brought up before, but I don't see archives of it so
> it may have been IRC only.
>
> http://jkeating.fedorapeople.org/alpha2beta-live-diff has a listing of
> the package differences between Alpha and Beta. I would really
> appreciate some help looking for something to cut for size, since you
> guys are supposed to own this config now.
>
> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-live-base.ks;h=55f57cf0a7ebf60326c5eabf968b0d4b2dfd4975 ;hb=refs/heads/F-10-Beta
>
> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-livecd-desktop.ks;h=371ad17a34667b60fe0fab63a3e9876245c7d a9e;hb=refs/heads/F-10-Beta
>
> and
>
> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-livecd-desktop-default.ks;h=e7a91937f1eb87df3d5197f6ea6cf2918ca98 6fb;hb=refs/heads/F-10-Beta
>
> are the configs used.

Not that it's much by way of disk size, but it looks like a lot of the X
libs got measurably bigger for no particularly good reason. libXrandr,
for example, got almost 40% bigger purely because the ChangeLog in
%doc got three times bigger.

Do we care that much about including these? I can't see that they're
worth much even on a real system.

In related news, the rpm changelog for initscripts is over 100k and goes
back to 1997, which does affect disk size since the live image includes
a real rpmdb. glibc is even worse at about 120k, though it only goes
back to 2000.

- ajax
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seth vidal 09-23-2008 02:12 PM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 10:09 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 17:56 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > I'm less concerned about x86_64 for Beta, but i686 not fitting on a CD
> > is a stop ship. We're 43~megs over size. That's not a small amount.
> > This may have been brought up before, but I don't see archives of it so
> > it may have been IRC only.
> >
> > http://jkeating.fedorapeople.org/alpha2beta-live-diff has a listing of
> > the package differences between Alpha and Beta. I would really
> > appreciate some help looking for something to cut for size, since you
> > guys are supposed to own this config now.
> >
> > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-live-base.ks;h=55f57cf0a7ebf60326c5eabf968b0d4b2dfd4975 ;hb=refs/heads/F-10-Beta
> >
> > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-livecd-desktop.ks;h=371ad17a34667b60fe0fab63a3e9876245c7d a9e;hb=refs/heads/F-10-Beta
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git;a=blob;f=fedora-livecd-desktop-default.ks;h=e7a91937f1eb87df3d5197f6ea6cf2918ca98 6fb;hb=refs/heads/F-10-Beta
> >
> > are the configs used.
>
> Not that it's much by way of disk size, but it looks like a lot of the X
> libs got measurably bigger for no particularly good reason. libXrandr,
> for example, got almost 40% bigger purely because the ChangeLog in
> %doc got three times bigger.
>
> Do we care that much about including these? I can't see that they're
> worth much even on a real system.
>
> In related news, the rpm changelog for initscripts is over 100k and goes
> back to 1997, which does affect disk size since the live image includes
> a real rpmdb. glibc is even worse at about 120k, though it only goes
> back to 2000.
>

I believe new versions of rpm will allow us to drop out all but the
latest N changelogs. I know that the changelog metadata that createrepo
produces now allows us to limit the changelogs we pass along in the xml
metadata to the latest N, as well.

I think we should keep the changelogs around in the spec files but not
pass around any but say the last 10 inside the actual rpm.

-sv


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Jeroen van Meeuwen 09-23-2008 04:23 PM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
Peter Gordon wrote:

On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 00:21 -0400, Brian Pepple wrote:

That's why I said we should look at what to include in the comps, and
not put hard requires in the spec. ;)


Hmm; but if we put it in comps, it's still going to be included anyway;
so in terms of saving space I don't really a difference, tbh.



No, it's not. It can be pulled in due to being in a comps group, and
then be excluded from the compose in the kickstart package manifests,
whereas with hard requires trying to remove the dep will result in a
failed compose.


-Jeroen

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"Colin Walters" 09-23-2008 04:47 PM

i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD
 
2008/9/22 Brian Pepple <bpepple@fedoraproject.org>:
>
> If empathy didn't have a hard requires on some of it's plugins, like
> telepathy-haze (which pulls in libpurple) that would drop 20MB or more.
> IMO, the only hard-requires for empathy should probably be
> telepathy-gabble (XMMP) & telepathy-salut (local-link XMMP), the rest we
> should give a hard look at what we want to use a default in comps to
> reduce some of the bloat.

That would make it basically only useful for GTalk users which has
significant market share only in North America and parts of the Middle
East[1].
I don't think there is any kind of upstream story for how you install
plugins outside of dropping to a terminal and using yum/apt-get
either.

[1] http://billionsconnected.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/global_im_market_share_stats_july_08.pdf

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