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Old 09-23-2008, 09:35 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD

Colin Walters wrote:

On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Rahul Sundaram
<sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

Since I am playing around with spinning images all the time, I can help with
this. If desktop team thinks my participation would be useful, let me know.


Definitely - any help is appreciated.


Is there any place where I can upload images after I create them for
wider testing? Is there restrictions on where I can compose them? Should
I be de-branding the images?


Rahul

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Old 09-23-2008, 09:39 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD

On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rahul Sundaram
<sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Colin Walters wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Rahul Sundaram
>> <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since I am playing around with spinning images all the time, I can help
>>> with
>>> this. If desktop team thinks my participation would be useful, let me
>>> know.
>>
>> Definitely - any help is appreciated.
>
> Is there any place where I can upload images after I create them for wider
> testing? Is there restrictions on where I can compose them? Should I be
> de-branding the images?

Well, my ideal on this would be that we land the infrastructure for
automatically creating them daily or even more frequently, and then we
work on committing changes to the kickstart file via peer review.

To help with size issues in particular I don't see a need to
distribute the result - it should be enough to describe the
change+patch ("moved help files into separately downloadable package",
"use bzip2 on changelogs", etc) here.

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Old 09-23-2008, 09:51 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD

Colin Walters wrote:


Well, my ideal on this would be that we land the infrastructure for
automatically creating them daily or even more frequently, and then we
work on committing changes to the kickstart file via peer review.


This would be ideal but I am not sure waiting for it is really the right
thing to do. As a side note, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu etc are doing more
intermediate alpha and beta releases than Fedora does. We should be
considering that. Ubuntu is doing daily builds of images as well.



To help with size issues in particular I don't see a need to
distribute the result - it should be enough to describe the
change+patch ("moved help files into separately downloadable package",
"use bzip2 on changelogs", etc) here.


I think, if we are generating images on a more regular basis, we should
be doing more than just checking the size. There is a valuable
opportunity for integration testing from the wider community and getting
more earlier feedback on experimental changes such as swapping Pidgin
with Empathy. This however requires distributing the composed images.


The problems I see with it are these:

1) Bandwidth and disk space

2) How do you trust and verify composes done outside the Fedora
infrastructure?


3) Branding conflicts with unofficial composes

Rahul

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Old 09-24-2008, 09:41 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD

2008/9/22 Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com>:
> On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 18:08 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
>> On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 17:56 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
>> > http://jkeating.fedorapeople.org/alpha2beta-live-diff has a listing of
>> > the package differences between Alpha and Beta. I would really
>> > appreciate some help looking for something to cut for size, since you
>> > guys are supposed to own this config now.
>>
>> Herm. this may actually be a diff of the Education-Math live image to
>> the Alpha Desktop image. I made a mistake somewhere. I'm re-creating
>> the Desktop image, although they share many of the same packages.
>
> I fixed the diff. It is now correct, and we're still 43 megs oversize.

I spent a bit more time looking at this and am concluding we're dying
the death of a lot of < 0.5meg cuts. Aside from our old friends,
fonts:
new package un-core-fonts-batang: 12971087
new package un-core-fonts-dotum: 7769083
new package un-core-fonts-gungseo: 6294199
new package un-core-fonts-dinaru: 3108519

I'm not qualified to evaluate these. Can someone with experience in
localization evaluate whether the GNOME desktop coverage is enough to
warrant shipping them?

What I'm currently thinking is that the install image needs to be
enough to bootstrap to a richer experience such as office tools or a
development environment. We need some sort of post-install process
that fills out the system with the parts we couldn't fit in the live
image, and also suggests things such as OpenOffice. I think the right
way to do this is comps; I'll take a look at how we might do this with
PackageKit.

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Old 09-25-2008, 04:06 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD

Colin Walters (walters@verbum.org) said:
> I spent a bit more time looking at this and am concluding we're dying
> the death of a lot of < 0.5meg cuts. Aside from our old friends,
> fonts:
> new package un-core-fonts-batang: 12971087
> new package un-core-fonts-dotum: 7769083
> new package un-core-fonts-gungseo: 6294199
> new package un-core-fonts-dinaru: 3108519
>
> I'm not qualified to evaluate these. Can someone with experience in
> localization evaluate whether the GNOME desktop coverage is enough to
> warrant shipping them?

They're all Korean fonts, which certainly seems to be well translated.

Bill

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Old 09-25-2008, 07:49 PM
Caolán McNamara
 
Default i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD

On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 17:41 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> I spent a bit more time looking at this and am concluding we're dying
> the death of a lot of < 0.5meg cuts.

> We need some sort of post-install process that fills out the system with
> the parts we couldn't fit in the live image

Playing around earlier, I see that

locale -a |grep -F _ |cut -d _ -f 1 | sort -u|wc -l

says that glibc supports 137 language identifiers, munging all variants
of a language together as one. So if we had 100% coverage of all
localizations throughout our stack, and disregarded any differences
between all Spanish, English, etc. variants. and disregarded the size of
any actual software on the cd, that gives < 6 megs available per language :-)

And FWIW as a random reference point from F9

du -ch /usr/share/gnome/help/*/de comes to 5.5M

with just...

ekiga
eog
fedora-release-notes
file-roller
gcalctool
gedit
gnome-applets
gnome-games
gnome-netstatus
gnome-panel
gnome-terminal
gnome-user-docs
gucharmap
rhythmbox
sound-juicer
system-config-date
system-config-services
system-config-users
tomboy
totem

C.

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Old 09-25-2008, 07:55 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default i686 (and likely x86_64) Live image not fitting on CD

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting@redhat.com> wrote:
> Colin Walters (walters@verbum.org) said:
>> I spent a bit more time looking at this and am concluding we're dying
>> the death of a lot of < 0.5meg cuts. Aside from our old friends,
>> fonts:
>> new package un-core-fonts-batang: 12971087
>> new package un-core-fonts-dotum: 7769083
>> new package un-core-fonts-gungseo: 6294199
>> new package un-core-fonts-dinaru: 3108519
>>
>> I'm not qualified to evaluate these. Can someone with experience in
>> localization evaluate whether the GNOME desktop coverage is enough to
>> warrant shipping them?
>
> They're all Korean fonts, which certainly seems to be well translated.

Ok - then a followup question is: do we need all of them? Who owns
the comps sets for $lang-support?
Adding fedora-i18n-list and fedora-fonts-list to CC - if you guys are
able to cut any of the fonts, particularly the larger ones it would
help us greatly.

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