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Old 08-07-2008, 09:38 AM
drago01
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org> wrote:
> Hi, just made a Feature page for GNOME 2.24:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNOME2_24
>
> There are various tasks here, the main change not executed on yet is
> Empathy, which I've been investigating this week. If you see anything
> else that needs to be added to that page, please do it.

Looks more like an Empathy feature page than a GNOME 2.24 one to me.

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Old 08-07-2008, 02:09 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 19:52 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > Hi, just made a Feature page for GNOME 2.24:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNOME2_24
> >
> > There are various tasks here, the main change not executed on yet is
> > Empathy, which I've been investigating this week. If you see anything
> > else that needs to be added to that page, please do it.
>
> Good idea. I've made some edits to the page. One thing to consider is
> that empathy requires the whole telepathy stack, which may cause some
> size issues on the live image. On the other hande, libpurple is huge
> too, and loosing that may well make up for telepathy.
>
> It is worth pointing out that you need to install telepathy-idle to
> get IRC support in empathy.
>

Speaking of size issues, could we reconsider using Epiphany (about 6MB
rpm + about 1MB rpm for extensions) instead of Firefox (about 10MB rpm)
as part of this Feature (both currently require xulrunner)? Epiphany is
official part of the Gnome Project (in contrast to firefox), follows the
gnome HIG, better integrates with various system settings and seems
faster than firefox.

Thanks,
Martin
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:02 PM
drago01
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 5:35 AM, Jeremy Katz <katzj@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 23:26 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Jeremy Katz <katzj@redhat.com> wrote:
>> > But the last time I tried, the pushback was very strong from parts of
>> > the world such as India and South America. Where they had citations
>> > about lack of availability of media and burners, etc. And as we try to
>> > push the (desktop) live image as the "best" method of getting Fedora,
>> > taking those concerns into account seems pretty valid to me.
>>
>> *cough* region-localized images *cough*
>
> So now rather than having one set of images which we build, test,
> mass-produce and send around the world, we have to maintain N. Which
> adds whole new logistics problems. Not to mention infrastructure/mirror
> space, lowered torrent efficiency, and other things of that nature.
>
> So it basically ends up trading off one set of problems for another,
> different one.

We can limit the N to 2.
LiveCD -> "limited* package set"
LiveDVD -> "full* package set"

* better wording needed

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Old 08-07-2008, 09:23 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

Hi,

2008/8/7 Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com>:
>
> Speaking of size issues, could we reconsider using Epiphany (about 6MB
> rpm + about 1MB rpm for extensions) instead of Firefox (about 10MB rpm)
> as part of this Feature (both currently require xulrunner)? Epiphany is
> official part of the Gnome Project (in contrast to firefox), follows the
> gnome HIG, better integrates with various system settings and seems
> faster than firefox.

That one is a much more significant change. In particular, Empathy is
a relatively new application and this is the first time we're really
looking at it and getting an idea of what its status is. Now I do
think it makes sense to evaluate these things continuously, I'd like
not to pull the browsers into the scope of this feature.

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Old 08-24-2008, 10:21 PM
Peter Gordon
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 19:27 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> There are various tasks here, the main change not executed on yet is
> Empathy, which I've been investigating this week. If you see anything
> else that needs to be added to that page, please do it.

In an effort to help expedite this and increase testing for the Beta
freeze coming up soon, I've changed comps to reflect the
Pidgin-->Empathy change. (Empathy is now the default with Pidgin as an
optional item, instead of vice-versa.)

Please holler if anything breaks!
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:39 PM
Brian Pepple
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 15:21 -0700, Peter Gordon wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 19:27 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> > There are various tasks here, the main change not executed on yet is
> > Empathy, which I've been investigating this week. If you see anything
> > else that needs to be added to that page, please do it.
>
> In an effort to help expedite this and increase testing for the Beta
> freeze coming up soon, I've changed comps to reflect the
> Pidgin-->Empathy change. (Empathy is now the default with Pidgin as an
> optional item, instead of vice-versa.)

IMO, I think Empathy is still too immature to be replacing Pidgin yet.
I know Ubuntu has been reviewing whether to make this default in their
distro also, and have a pretty good comparison between.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmpathyVsPidginUsability

Later,
/B
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:21 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

2008/8/24 Brian Pepple <bpepple@fedoraproject.org>:
>
> IMO, I think Empathy is still too immature to be replacing Pidgin yet.
> I know Ubuntu has been reviewing whether to make this default in their
> distro also, and have a pretty good comparison between.
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmpathyVsPidginUsability

Yeah, mpt did a very good review and we should take it into
consideration. What I'd like to see is how much of this the Empathy
developers address before 2.24. At least some of those have been
fixed in SVN, but clearly some are hard to fix before Sep. 15.

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Old 08-25-2008, 07:48 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

Peter Gordon wrote:


In an effort to help expedite this and increase testing for the Beta
freeze coming up soon, I've changed comps to reflect the
Pidgin-->Empathy change. (Empathy is now the default with Pidgin as an
optional item, instead of vice-versa.)


And Haze will also be installed by default? For _me_, Empathy is
*completely useless* without the additional protocols from Haze.


BTW, I find it weird to install Empathy and then add a plugin (Haze) to
make it work with the Pidgin's core (purple) instead of the simple
solution of just staying with Pidgin.


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Old 08-25-2008, 07:57 AM
drago01
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro> wrote:
> Peter Gordon wrote:
>>
>> In an effort to help expedite this and increase testing for the Beta
>> freeze coming up soon, I've changed comps to reflect the
>> Pidgin-->Empathy change. (Empathy is now the default with Pidgin as an
>> optional item, instead of vice-versa.)
>
> And Haze will also be installed by default? For _me_, Empathy is *completely
> useless* without the additional protocols from Haze.

Yeah it needs Haze to be able to compete with pidgin (protocoll
support), but this will drag in libpurple.
So in the end it will use *more* disk space than pidgin + libpurple
and we already have space problems on the livecd.

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Old 08-25-2008, 08:30 AM
Martin Sourada
 
Default GNOME 2.24 feature

On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 10:48 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Peter Gordon wrote:
> >
> > In an effort to help expedite this and increase testing for the Beta
> > freeze coming up soon, I've changed comps to reflect the
> > Pidgin-->Empathy change. (Empathy is now the default with Pidgin as an
> > optional item, instead of vice-versa.)
>
> And Haze will also be installed by default? For _me_, Empathy is
> *completely useless* without the additional protocols from Haze.
>
> BTW, I find it weird to install Empathy and then add a plugin (Haze) to
> make it work with the Pidgin's core (purple) instead of the simple
> solution of just staying with Pidgin.
>
Dunno which protocols do you use, but I (using ICQ, MSN, Jabber and IRC)
am perfectly fine with gajim which supports only Jabber (the rest is
handled via jabber-to-something-other transports) and has IMHO the best
GUI, I've ever seen (also svn snapshot can render LaTeX formulas in
conversations which is a very valuable function to me) in instant
messengers. Also me thinks doing this pidgin->empathy change just before
beta freeze is like testing if the change is worth doing it or not.

Marin
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