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Old 10-05-2012, 10:39 PM
Mirn Duffy
 
Default The boot splash - time to think about it again

On Fri, 2012-10-05 at 23:14 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote:
> Hi Mo,
>
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:09:22 -0400
> Mirn Duffy wrote:
> > (we've had the same plymouth splash for many releases now and I've
> > never seen a single complaint about it.)
> unless I missed a change in the defaults, what you say here is obviously
> not true:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.artwork/11725

A rendering bug that doesn't happen anymore...

> And yeah, my position stands still the same. Spinfinity looks *much*
> nicer.

It does, yeh. We didn't change to it. It doesn't look like there was any
opposition to changing to it. If people don't care enough change doesn't
happen. I guess they didn't care enough.

~m

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Old 10-06-2012, 12:46 AM
Matthew Miller
 
Default The boot splash - time to think about it again

On Fri, Oct 05, 2012 at 11:26:53PM +0200, Elad Alfassa wrote:
> but then we need to actually get selinux and fsck developers to make their
> software provide us with progress information. If they do that, and we have

We can do that. Dan Walsh wrote the selinux fixfiles script, and he's

a) a reasonable person
b) who gets stuff done
c) who is very involved in fedora

And fsck allready has the capability.

So I think we should fix that rather than worrying about what to do without
it.

> a reliable method of figuring out how to handle this, a progressbar for the
> overall boot progress when there's a relabel running will appear "stuck"
> because the relabel is just another thing running... I suggest either
> throbber+progress bar for long operations or two progress bars, one for
> long operation and the other for the overall boot progress.

I'll defer on that, but two progress bars seems confusing.


--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ <mattdm@fedoraproject.org>
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:22 PM
Lailah
 
Default The boot splash - time to think about it again

El vie, 05-10-2012 a las 17:03 +0200, Elad Alfassa escribi:


I really don't want to start this discussion again, but I clearly have no choice, as this is starting to become one of the only areas where we offer sub-optimal UX.



We have a problem with the default boot splash. It tries to convey progress but we don't have a good way to tell how far in the boot process we are (eg. if we do fsck or selinux relabel, it will appear stuck for some time, which is a bad user experience).

Since we don't have any actual progress data, using a progress indicator there is silly.



Few release cycles ago, the Desktop team wanted to change the boot splash to a minimalistic throbber. This does look better, but caused a lot of flamewars and stupid conspiracy theories on this list and the marketing list, and we vetoed the change.



The reason we (as a team) vetoed this decision was that the Fedora logo was not exposed anywhere in the OS. but since then, upstream GDM added a way for us to display the fedora logo on the login screen, and the boot process got way faster (and I'm going to try to convince people to optimize it further for Fedora 19 by default, because it is possible).

The fedora logo on the boot splash will only be seen for around 0.5 seconds on a modern machine, and before that there is the filling, meaningless and confusing bubble progress thing.



In Fedora 18, we added a feature called Offline System Updates, which means certain updates will be installed on reboot to decrease chances of things breaking. Some of them might take a while to install, and the current boot splash is not a good way to convey information about such a long process.



I suggest we replace it with a minimalistic throbber, perhaps a text indicating which release you are running (or simple words like "starting", "stopping", "restarting" and so forth). When there is a long process happening in the background, such as selinux relabel, fsck or package install, we should

1) Indicate this with a simple text (reminding the user not to force-off the machine to protect their data might be a good idea too)

2) Show a simple progress bar (which will be less confusing than the bubble)



In my opinion, those changes will improve the Fedora user experience.

Yes, maybe 0.5 seconds of the logo that we all love so much will be gone, but, well... Fedora users already knows they are using Fedora, and the login screen shows that too.



And if you really, really want the logo to be there for those few seconds (despite everything I've said and despite the fact that not flashing a logo everywhere will not make Fedora to be less Fedora, our logo is just a logo - there are more basic things that makes us special and makes our users happy), we could put a small version of it in the top left corner, so it'll be not intrusive.



Thanks for reading this.

Opinions?

--

-Elad Alfassa.






_______________________________________________








Hello!

*********** I totally agree with you, Elad.* I would like a progress bar and little words like* "Starting thing1, Starting thing2".* May be the Fedora logo in the middle, under this the progress bar and little words at bottom.* Or as you say, Fedora logo in a corner, and in the center of the screen the progress bar and little words.







My 2 cents,

Lailah











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Old 10-07-2012, 12:24 PM
Lailah
 
Default The boot splash - time to think about it again

El vie, 05-10-2012 a las 18:36 +0100, Camilo Mesias escribi:


Hi,

I wonder if it's possible to keep track of time whilst booting, I feel
this should be possible even if accurate progress or even the amount
of work to complete is not known.

Maybe then there could be some weighted average of the time taken to boot.

This would allow a time based animation that shows true progress
(elapsed time) with reference to something meaningful (average boot
time).

It's not too hard to think of a visual representation of this,
movement of a logo along a timeline perhaps..?

-=(f)
----+----+----+----+----+----+----*----

(excuse my ASCII art attempt!)

-Cam
_______________________________________________






Don't worry, your ASCII art is fine, I can see your idea and is cute.* I don't know if it is useful, but is cute.* *





Lailah





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