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Old 09-14-2011, 09:38 PM
María Leandro
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

2011/9/14 Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org>

The owner of the Blacksburg logo design ticket should have passed the

proposal over to Ben. I don't know who owns the ticket. It could have

been our fault for not passing the decision over. I had thought your

email was cc'ed to the list gnokii but it wasn't.



Np, at the end, FUDcon logo is decided by the organizators, not the Design team. We can only provide options *

Tatica, if you're the owner of the ticket then it's up to you what you'd

like to do. I am not a fan of the proposed logo; it's based on a scratch

drawing and I think the one gnokii and I came up with is a stronger

design.

https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190
I'm not the design ticket owner, I will email or ping Ian, my mistake to help
*


On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 23:11 +0200, S.Kemter wrote:

> I fear he never saw ur proposal, thats why we didnt get feedback on it. I know

> that something went wrong since around 14 days.

> When in the last meeting not happend such a fight for senseless things, I had

> said or asked about it



We have a mailing list too; the meeting isn't the only time to bring up

stuff and is probably not the best...

I send the mail just after make the mockup and share the info through everywhere I know to try get more feedback.
Once again, my mistake*



At this point I'd prefer to drop meetings entirely and just have weekly

status mails sent to the list since we were already having weeks of

meeting attendance issues. The list is better for everyone across

timezones to keep up with everything going on I think. Any opinions?
*
meetings where fine at the begining, and should be fine. Perhaps not weekly, if meetings aren't good enough then we have mail lists (which we are using now), so consider that everything is a plus for communication.


Once again, if I made a mistake, sorry

*



~m



_______________________________________________

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https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team



--
tatica
Maria Gracia Leandro
http://www.tatica.org

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
LinuxUser= 440285* GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56

_______________________________________________
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https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
 
Old 09-14-2011, 09:44 PM
María Leandro
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

Reopen the ticket, which was closed, and add all sources.
https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190

*
We work as a team and that is important, but we also do need to identify

someone who is accountable for seeing this design through the

completion. Is that you, is that gnokii, or do we need someone to step

up and take ownership of this project to figure out the next step?

there is no need for that, we will have more important task where we will need more help which are, banners, t-shirts and more. All those tickets are already open (a while ago) and communication happens since tickets send a reminder through mail and IRC

https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/197
https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/194

Be the owner of a ticket doesn't mean that is the only one that can do it, once again, that's why we are a team.... right?



Understood, and I very much appreciate your taking the time to send this

out via mailing list to those of us who cannot attend every Fedora

meeting, especially during the two weeks before our beta release which

is a very hectic time for last-minute changes.

We do what we can mo *



~m




--
tatica
Maria Gracia Leandro
http://www.tatica.org

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
LinuxUser= 440285* GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56


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Old 09-15-2011, 04:41 AM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 17:14 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
> Reopen the ticket, which was closed, and add all sources.
>
>
> https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190

Okay, I'll pull the logo gnokii and I worked on out of the comps sheet
and add it with the SVG to that ticket, thanks for the link.

> We work as a team and that is important, but we also do need
> to identify
> someone who is accountable for seeing this design through the
> completion. Is that you, is that gnokii, or do we need someone
> to step
> up and take ownership of this project to figure out the next
> step?
>
>
> there is no need for that, we will have more important task where we
> will need more help which are, banners, t-shirts and more.

Okay, I am assuming then since you haven't indicated otherwise that it
is okay to move forward with the design we'd already worked out, so as
noted above I'll update the ticket with that and take ownership for
getting Ben's final approval on the logo specifically.

> All those tickets are already open (a while ago) and communication
> happens since tickets send a reminder through mail and IRC

It seems a lot of discussion has been happening about this (and other
fudcon-related projects) outside of the ticket system so the automated
ticket comment notifications would not have been much help. (I'm just as
guilty of this as anybody else.)

Should we be treating the ticket system as the canonical place to have
discussions then? I see discussions scattered across this mailing list,
IRC, other mailing lists, and even Google Docs (I think this is a very
bad habit and is not open source)... it makes it harder for folks to
participate or even just follow along when it's not clear what's going
on and where it's happening.

Do folks get ticket mails for all team tickets or only the tickets
they're cc'ed on? (If the latter that solution could be an issue?)

What does everybody else think?

> Be the owner of a ticket doesn't mean that is the only one that can do
> it, once again, that's why we are a team.... right?

It doesn't. It does mean, however, the person who owns the ticket should
be communicated with so we're all on the same page and don't duplicate
efforts. A ticket-owner doesn't necessarily have to be the one doing the
artwork but I think they should be the one pushing the project forward
and making sure it happens at the very least; if that isn't happening
though, and there's a ticket you're interested in working on, it's good
to reassign the ticket to yourself (after communicating with the ticket
owner) so folks know it's not neglected. We can work as a team when
playing ball, but not everyone can hold the ball at the same time!

> We do what we can mo

Much appreciated.

~m


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Old 09-15-2011, 04:47 AM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 17:08 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
> meetings where fine at the begining, and should be fine. Perhaps not
> weekly, if meetings aren't good enough then we have mail lists (which
> we are using now), so consider that everything is a plus for
> communication.

Compared to the age of the team we have not been running meetings very
long; it's only recently gotten to the point I worry about the meeting
being a waste of time because so few attend (or self-admittedly
'half-attend.') If it's not fun we shouldn't be doing it, I think; if it
was fun attendance would be higher, I think.

If we are having (weekly | biweekly | monthly) meetings then what should
we be using them for?

Maybe we could have a weekly gathering time, but rather than running a
formal meeting we can just schedule it as a kind of social hour you can
show up to if you want a critique or feedback on a design? So if you can
only make it once a month, no problem. But you don't need to be there to
keep up or to pose a question or to give your status; you can feel
comfortable doing so on the mailing list at your own pace instead.

~m


_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:38 AM
María Leandro
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

Okay, I am assuming then since you haven't indicated otherwise that it

is okay to move forward with the design we'd already worked out, so as

noted above I'll update the ticket with that and take ownership for

getting Ben's final approval on the logo specifically.
Tickets are already open, a while ago, but stop until logo is aproved by Ben.
*


> All those tickets are already open (a while ago) and communication

> happens since tickets send a reminder through mail and IRC



It seems a lot of discussion has been happening about this (and other

fudcon-related projects) outside of the ticket system so the automated

ticket comment notifications would not have been much help. (I'm just as

guilty of this as anybody else.)



Not too much really, with FUDcon India I have been only help, local team has done everything, same with Milan. With Blacksburg we have time, but things have been a bit rush (for logo and after people give their feedback) flyers since Ben want to make a campaing at Vtec fast (a couple in fact).

Same with other meetings, everyone is invited as I said, I have only been atent to other tasks since mine where finish or solved by other team members.*

Should we be treating the ticket system as the canonical place to have

discussions then? I see discussions scattered across this mailing list,

IRC, other mailing lists, and even Google Docs (I think this is a very

bad habit and is not open source)... it makes it harder for folks to

participate or even just follow along when it's not clear what's going

on and where it's happening.

That's Milans particular issue, even if everyone wanted to dialogue with them and make them use the regular channels, has been almost imposible. I only got Samuele to send a mail to all mail list after he went back from vacations, updates are on the mail list already. The rest has been openly, and I hope Blacksburg be too.
*


Do folks get ticket mails for all team tickets or only the tickets

they're cc'ed on? (If the latter that solution could be an issue?)



What does everybody else think?



> Be the owner of a ticket doesn't mean that is the only one that can do

> it, once again, that's why we are a team.... right?



It doesn't. It does mean, however, the person who owns the ticket should

be communicated with so we're all on the same page and don't duplicate

efforts. A ticket-owner doesn't necessarily have to be the one doing the

artwork but I think they should be the one pushing the project forward

and making sure it happens at the very least; if that isn't happening

though, and there's a ticket you're interested in working on, it's good

to reassign the ticket to yourself (after communicating with the ticket

owner) so folks know it's not neglected. We can work as a team when

playing ball, but not everyone can hold the ball at the same time!



Yeah, that's why I have post everymail list, blogs and more, to get feedback beyond our mail list, tickets and more. Once again, I'm sorry if I made a mistake.
*
> We do what we can mo



Much appreciated.



~m





_______________________________________________

design-team mailing list

design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org

https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

--

tatica
Maria Gracia Leandro
http://www.tatica.org

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
LinuxUser= 440285* GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56

_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
 
Old 09-15-2011, 11:43 AM
María Leandro
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

2011/9/15 Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org>

On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 17:08 -0430, María Leandro wrote:

> meetings where fine at the begining, and should be fine. Perhaps not

> weekly, if meetings aren't good enough then we have mail lists (which

> we are using now), so consider that everything is a plus for

> communication.



Compared to the age of the team we have not been running meetings very

long; it's only recently gotten to the point I worry about the meeting

being a waste of time because so few attend (or self-admittedly

'half-attend.') If it's not fun we shouldn't be doing it, I think; if it

was fun attendance would be higher, I think.



If we are having (weekly | biweekly | monthly) meetings then what should

we be using them for?



Maybe we could have a weekly gathering time, but rather than running a

formal meeting we can just schedule it as a kind of social hour you can

show up to if you want a critique or feedback on a design? So if you can

only make it once a month, no problem. But you don't need to be there to

keep up or to pose a question or to give your status; you can feel

comfortable doing so on the mailing list at your own pace instead.



a social hour is the same that a meeting, ask people to gather at a particular hour might be the problem. Other idea is to set up days where people can hang at any-time. gnokii, elad and even myself now that I got time and internet are pretty much always at the IRC channel helping people and chating, So a day can be set down completely where, if there are special things to be reminded or set up, a wikipage call -agenda- can be set where this doubts, ideas or anything can be placed, and then someone at the end of the day (I can do it) send that -agenga- to the mail, to be discussed as the "weekly discussions" instead a weekly meeting.

That will not only give free of time for our team, but also will help us to expand our meetings, include those who not even can login into IRC (I was one of those) and why not, give us a bit of time to think our answers, find more resources and google more ideas

*
~m





_______________________________________________

design-team mailing list

design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org

https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

--

tatica
Maria Gracia Leandro
http://www.tatica.org

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
LinuxUser= 440285* GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56

_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
 
Old 09-15-2011, 11:49 AM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 07:13 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
> if there are special things to be reminded or set up, a wikipage call
> -agenda- can be set where this doubts, ideas or anything can be
> placed, and then someone at the end of the day (I can do it) send that
> -agenga- to the mail, to be discussed as the "weekly discussions"
> instead a weekly meeting.

How would one propose an agenda item? It seems it might be more overhead
than its worth to do every week. Maybe bi-weekly is better.

> That will not only give free of time for our team, but also will help
> us to expand our meetings, include those who not even can login into
> IRC (I was one of those) and why not, give us a bit of time to think
> our answers, find more resources and google more ideas

Makes sense, I'll think about this.

~m


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Old 09-15-2011, 11:52 AM
María Leandro
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

btw, did you just reasign all tickets I open to you?


--
tatica


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Old 09-15-2011, 12:04 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 07:08 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
> Tickets are already open, a while ago, but stop until logo is aproved
> by Ben.

Except for the logo one which was closed. (now reopened)

>
> It seems a lot of discussion has been happening about this
> (and other fudcon-related projects) outside of the ticket
> system so the automated ticket comment notifications would not
> have been much help. (I'm just as guilty of this as anybody
> else.

> Not too much really, with FUDcon India I have been only help, local
> team has done everything, same with Milan. With Blacksburg we have
> time, but things have been a bit rush (for logo and after people give
> their feedback) flyers since Ben want to make a campaing at Vtec fast
> (a couple in fact).

A lot of discussion (that I was involved in) took place on IRC and via
email that wasn't written up in the ticket, which confused me later --
even though I was part of the discussions in the first place, I didn't
remember everything. I am suggesting a process to avoid similar problems
in the future. Had a responsible party (which I understand now did not
exist) taken ownership of the ticket and took the time to take the notes
(either sent in the ticket or here to the list) then we would not have
had this confusion over the status of the Blacksburg logo in the first
place.

The local Pune & Milan teams did a good job of sending logo designs to
this list for approval; there were folks identified to be responsible
for the designs to make sure they happened and they did (Suchakra &
Samuele.) This is the general way things should happen, I think.
However, this was not the case with Blacksburg, which is why I am
suggesting that in the future we identify someone responsible and why I
took ownership of the ticket.

That's all. I know your time is precious (as all of our time is) so I
want to solve the problem when I see work duplicated that could have
been avoided.
>
> Same with other meetings, everyone is invited as I said, I have only
> been atent to other tasks since mine where finish or solved by other
> team members.

It goes without saying that everyone is invited to a meeting in Fedora
and that not all of us have the luxury of time / position on the planet
to attend them all; it's appreciated when folks who have the time to do
so also take the time to pass information along to those of us who do
not so we can still participate.

> Should we be treating the ticket system as the canonical place
> to have
> discussions then? I see discussions scattered across this
> mailing list,
> IRC, other mailing lists, and even Google Docs (I think this
> is a very
> bad habit and is not open source)... it makes it harder for
> folks to
> participate or even just follow along when it's not clear
> what's going
> on and where it's happening.

> That's Milans particular issue, even if everyone wanted to dialogue
> with them and make them use the regular channels, has been almost
> imposible. I only got Samuele to send a mail to all mail list after he
> went back from vacations, updates are on the mail list already. The
> rest has been openly, and I hope Blacksburg be too.

This is a problem.

>
> Yeah, that's why I have post everymail list, blogs and more, to get
> feedback beyond our mail list, tickets and more. Once again, I'm sorry
> if I made a mistake.

Thank you, it has certainly moved the ticket forward. You did exactly
the right thing; there was no ticket, no assigned owner, no status
update so you did the very best thing you could do. I am sorry for my
initial confusion as there were emails I was sure had been sent to this
list; when I looked them up I saw the list was removed from the CC for
some reason.

~m


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Old 09-15-2011, 12:05 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Logo: FUDcon Blacksburg

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 07:22 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
> btw, did you just reasign all tickets I open to you?

Could you give me specific ticket URLs?

I specifically took ticket #190 for the logo. I do not have
time/bandwidth to own the poster and t-shirt tickets.

https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/190

I received no ticket re-assignment emails other than the one I made
myself via #190.

Thanks,
~m

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