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-   -   design-team Digest, Vol 20, Issue 12 (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-design-team/467085-design-team-digest-vol-20-issue-12-a.html)

"吴子逸" 12-18-2010 04:30 AM

design-team Digest, Vol 20, Issue 12
 
Hi*everyone,******I'm*Wu*Ziyi,and*I*com e*from*China.Being*learn*the*industrial*desi gn,I*find*I'm*not*have*really*interest*in* it.*I*have*a*recent*experience*of*Fedora*L inux,and*Gnome*is*my*current*desktop*environ ment.In*the*process*of*learning*,I*find, in*China,*that*Gnome*isn't*that*artistic* compared*with*KDE,even*KDE*is*as*efficient *as*Gnome*at*the*same*time。And*it**Many *Chinese*linux-learners*as*me*are*puzzled*how*to*adapt*wi th*Gnome。So*What*I*want*to*say*is*that* a*our*team*may*should*have*a*more*active* affect*in*making*Gnome*a*more*applicable*en vironment*for*everyone*。*****Looking*fo rward*to*having*a*more*wonderful*Gnome!** ***Thanks,and*God*bless*my*broken*English!Z iyi**------------------*Original*------------------From: "design-team-request"; Date: 2010年12月18日(星期*) 上午6:43To: "design-team"; Subject: design-team Digest, Vol 20, Issue 12*Send design-team mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

?? 1. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (M?ir?n Duffy)
?? 2. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Jaroslav Reznik)
?? 3. Hello, my name is ...? Kirk Bridger (Kirk Bridger)
?? 4. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Martin Sourada)
?? 5. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Fabian A. Scherschel)
?? 6. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Fabian A. Scherschel)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:12:11 -0500
From: M?ir?n Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Message-ID: <1292602331.25125.52.camel@Brigid>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 11:01 -0500, Owen Taylor wrote:
> If the team doing the default Fedora desktop switched and did a GNOME
> remix instead this cycle, who would do the default Fedora desktop?
> (I'm sure you'd be happy to switch the default to KDE for this cycle,
> but... ;-)
>
> And how would we distinguish between the two different downloads when
> presenting options to the user? We'd basically be offering the user the
> choice between two different almost identical things because we couldn't
> come to a decision.

Yeh unfortunately I kind of think such a spin would be hard to not dub
the "political mess spin" and would likely be an embarrassment for us as
a project :-/ I say this having worked with some of you on our new
website download pages. It would *not* be an easy job to come up with
the wording there.

> My suggestion to you guys if we go this route is really to keep the
> change as minimal as possible and proceed as normal with the other
> desktop backgrounds and the rest of the art.
>
> Obviously if the art team feels its a waste of time to do a set of art
> when the background image in that art set is only an optional choice
> within GNOME then something else will have to be figured out, but it
> seems that there still is a lot of exposure to the art set elsewhere and
> on other desktops.

It is also worth pointing out that our design will be visible in the
default download behind GDM so it will get exposure in the default
download besides syslinux / grub / anaconda / firstboot... Syslinux in
F15 btw is going to look a LOT nicer :) I've been poking at it a bit
http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/fedora-installation-user-experience-improvements-syslinux/

~m



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:26:09 +0100
From: Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Message-ID: <201012171726.09387.jreznik@redhat.com>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;? charset="utf-8"

On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:03:39 pm M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
> Hi Nicu,
>
> It is true that KDE 4.5 shipped with a wallpaper that is strikingly
> similar to the GNOME 3 wallpaper, but I've talked to a few KDE users and
> it seems that it was not ever set as the default wallpaper for a KDE
> release so it doesn't have the same brand attachment to KDE that the
> GNOME 3 team is looking to achieve.

Indeed, it's not default Plasma Desktop wallpaper - but of course - we can ship
it if needed.

R.

> ~m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

--
Jaroslav ?ezn?k <jreznik@redhat.com>
Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno

Office: +420 532 294 275
Mobile: +420 602 797 774
Red Hat, Inc.?????????????????????????????? http://cz.redhat.com/


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:43:23 -0800
From: Kirk Bridger <kbridger@shaw.ca>
Subject: [Design-team] Hello, my name is ...? Kirk Bridger
To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Message-ID: <4D0B932B.7000106@shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi everyone,

My name is Kirk, I'm looking to get more involved with the design team.

My background is as a user experience professional and business
analyst.? I'm currently the UX Advocate for Liferea, and am looking to
contribute further to Fedora specifically.? I've migrated from Ubuntu as
their design direction doesn't really match my computer use practices.

Which brings us to the current discussion about Gnome3 and the
background.? I don't really have any history with this team so I'll
continue to lurk on the discussion.

Looking forward to lending a hand in some manner!

Kirk



------------------------------------------------------------------------
No amount of genius can overcome a preoccupation with detail.
/*Marion J. Levy*/
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:28:30 +0100
From: Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Message-ID: <1292621311.2356.59.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi M?ir?n,

On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 11:03 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
> So there's a few things to consider here.... for example, the GNOME
> marketing team is actually engaged in an effort to create a series of
> videos showing off different aspects of GNOME 3 for the launch (some
> details here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/Gnome3In30Seconds ...
> I saw one of the videos at the Boston Summit but I'm not sure where they
> are online, I'll look for a copy though - they are impressive!) If they
> use the default GNOME wallpaper, but we use a different wallpaper,
> there's a missed opportunity for shared materials there. E.g., we could
> use the videos (which are openly licensed of course!) as part of our
> website without having to modify them or re-shoot them.
>
> It is true that KDE 4.5 shipped with a wallpaper that is strikingly
> similar to the GNOME 3 wallpaper, but I've talked to a few KDE users and
> it seems that it was not ever set as the default wallpaper for a KDE
> release so it doesn't have the same brand attachment to KDE that the
> GNOME 3 team is looking to achieve.
>
> Another thing to think about is the larger struggle between upstreams'
> branding and downstream branding. GNOME 3 isn't trying to produce a
> desktop that shoves the GNOME foot in your face constantly and competes
> with the Fedora brand. The GNOME logo really doesn't appear anywhere. I
> think they are going for a more neutral look that won't override the
> distro branding leading up to the desktop, and won't confuse users over
> what they are using.
IMHO this would lessen Fedora's visual identity a lot. Imagine you boot
a F15 Desktop Live and what you see is almost pristine GNOME 3 desktop.
Where's Fedora in it? Where's our own visual identity in it? Moreover,
KDE shipped our wallpaper with the 4.0 release, why should we treat
GNOME differently? Is it some new trend?

OK, so upstream wants to promote GNOME 3. I'm not a fan of gnome-shell
(quite the contrary), but let them do it. But why the visual identity?
It's the behaviour, the work-flow, the experience that makes GNOME 3
from end-user point of view, and it's the visual identity that makes our
distro Fedora from end-user POV (among other things, but the visual
identity is the first thing you see).

So in short, let's be *first* to ship GNOME 3 and let's be *first* to
ship it with our own visual identity. We, the fedora design team, should
be leaders in our area as well ;-)

Martin

PS: If majority would support us shipping default GNOME 3 wallpaper as
our default in GNOME 3 "spin", instead of having it in prominent place
in bg-chooser applet, I'd yield.
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 23:30:30 +0100
From: "Fabian A. Scherschel" <fab@sixgun.org>
Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinDKAeWi5ZNPYJ8yr5pc09XaVz2Y3xxiPs4xTku@mai l.gmail.com>
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On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Owen Taylor <otaylor@redhat.com> wrote:

>
> Our general approach with the GNOME components in Fedora is to work
> upstream whenever possible. It's very seldom that there's a change that
> makes sense in Fedora that doesn't make sense upstream. So we try to
> just do the change upstream.
>
> I think we'd see the art the same way; if the icons can be improved, if
> we can do a more attractive widget theme, then we should do that for
> GNOME.
>

I appreciate what you are trying to do here, but to be honest, if I had
wanted to work on the Gnome 3 look and feel I had joined the Gnome Design
Team. As it stands, I have chosen to work on Fedora's design and you can't
deny that you are trying to substantially neuter the impact of our team and
of Fedora branding as a whole here...



>
> So, I guess we haven't necessarily seen the need for a big process to
> design artwork for GNOME 3 in Fedora 15 that is separate from the normal
> flow to design artwork for GNOME 3. The GNOME artists are very friendly
> and open to people getting involved. You can find them on #gnome-art and
> #gnome-design on GimpNet.
>
> Obviously, there's work to be done to coordinate the user experience for
> GNOME 3 and Fedora and make it fit together - at every level from how
> the websites interact on down. There's still a few months to make that
> happen.



So I guess what you're saying is that wallpapers should be upstream from now
on and we should divert our attention elsewhere?

Fab
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 23:42:58 +0100
From: "Fabian A. Scherschel" <fab@sixgun.org>
Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinhak2e_vqWAaoFQoKH0+ywSaygiLRZ6_8bSoC-@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> I just read the post here by Owen and it specifically says "request."
> Anything else is reportage or inference.
>

Is it? I wasn't attending the meeting but it really looks like it is being
pushed through to me. I mean, honestly, who on the Design Team would be in
favour of this and why? I strongly urge those who are to speak out. I am not
saying this is a conspiracy, all I am saying is that it's against how I
understood we've done things in the past and it takes away a big hallmark of
the Design Team work for a reason that surely don't benefits the team
members as design contributers.



> It's precisely because Owen understands the visibility of the
> wallpaper that he went to great length to explain the nature of his
> request.? So it's unfair to say anyone's not sensitive to that,
> because that seems to me to be the entire reason the request was made.
> I'd hope we're not becoming a team or project that has no ability to
> constructively address requests or find ways to promote great free
> software.
>

Maybe we as the Design Team should vote publicly on the request then.



> Check out Owen's request again to see if it helps clarify this.? He
> indicated this is a one-time branding opportunity to help GNOME 3 with
> marketing their release, and specifically set out reasons for the
> request.
>

How exactly is it that they need marketing? They will be the default in
Fedora and the official future of the Gnome project. I can see how Unity
needs branding and a marketing boost, but that's because they aren't the
official upstream shell. Did people need to explicitely advertise Nautilus
when Gnome 2 came out?



>
> I'm not trying to appease anyone, I'm simply saying why I personally
> feel this could be a worthwhile one-time concession.? Agree or
> disagree, but it's not necessary to attach conspiracy theories.? I
> found out at the same time you did (well, later really, since I came
> into the discussion late, not being at the meeting, for which I
> apologize!).
>

Sorry, I really didn't want to make it sound like a conspiracy. It's just
that they way Mo talked about this special request looked a bit odd in the
IRC logs. Once again, I am sorry I couldn't be there and ask the questions
in person at the time.


>
> And personally I think creating wallpaper is not the biggest
> responsibility for the Design team.? It may be one of the most widely
> visible ones, but it's not the most important IMHO.? I think the most
> important responsibility of the team is handling the many requests for
> design from the community that come up regularly, both connected to
> releases and for completely ad-hoc tasks.? Those requests help Fedora
> contributors have amazing presence at shows, create cool displays,
> attract people to the project, and so forth.? Wallpaper is part of
> that responsibility, traditionally, but I don't think it's the
> overwhelming majority.


OK, we definitely have a different view of the team then. Maybe it is
because I haven't been on board that long. All I know is that people outside
Fedora think that's what we are doing... May be a communication / PR issue
then.

Fab

>
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