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Old 12-21-2010, 02:09 PM
"Fabian A. Scherschel"
 
Default GNOME background in Fedora 15

Just a few points I wanted to get across after reading my backlog in this thread:
1) Fedora's branding, IMHO, isn't close to strong enough. Compared to Ubuntu we suck in this department. So I see no reason to weaken it further at all. Mo is right, we do NOT have coffee shop recognition but that doesn't mean we should give up, bend over (as Nicu put it) and surrender our efforts - even if it's only for one release. What we NEED to do, is strengthen our branding and work harder. That is why I believe we should reject this proposal.

2) I strongly believe this move won't help Gnome. I love what they are doing with Shell and Gnome 3 but I think they are badly mistaken in thinking that establishing a default look via a wallpaper (of all things) across their different distribution channels will strengthen their brand. Gnome is a desktop, it doesn't have need for a brand in this respect. What they need is rock-solid software with awesome features (just think of the Zeitgeist mess for a second) and a well-planned release. If they spend their time and energy on that it will benefit them a lot more than us shipping their default wallpaper. If the time we wasted with this decision would have been spend on hacking on or thinking about Shell, we and they would already be better off.

3) What Fedora needs most of all is more end-user focus, IMO. I love the upstream work we are doing, but the areas we need to improve is UI polish, marketing and quality control. The first two things are areas where we in the design team can help. We need to develop a strong visual brand that the Marketing Team can use to propel us to a place on the desktop alongside people like Ubuntu. We are technically better, let's also be better in the other areas too!

Sorry for wasting even more of people's time, but I had to get this off my chest.
Fab
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:30 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default GNOME background in Fedora 15

On 12/21/2010 05:09 PM, Fabian A. Scherschel wrote:
> Just a few points I wanted to get across after reading my backlog in
> this thread:
>
> 1) Fedora's branding, IMHO, isn't close to strong enough. Compared to
> Ubuntu we suck in this department. So I see no reason to weaken it
> further at all. Mo is right, we do NOT have coffee shop recognition but
> that doesn't mean we should give up, bend over (as Nicu put it) and
> surrender our efforts - even if it's only for one release. What we NEED
> to do, is strengthen our branding and work harder. That is why I believe
> we should reject this proposal.

The truth is, is was our deliberate decision to make the branding soft
to encourage the re-use of our artwork and derivatives. It was also made
to avoid possible trademark problems.

> 2) I strongly believe this move won't help Gnome. I love what they are
> doing with Shell and Gnome 3 but I think they are badly mistaken in
> thinking that establishing a default look via a wallpaper (of all
> things) across their different distribution channels will strengthen
> their brand. Gnome is a desktop, it doesn't have need for a brand in
> this respect. What they need is rock-solid software with awesome
> features (just think of the Zeitgeist mess for a second) and a
> well-planned release. If they spend their time and energy on that it
> will benefit them a lot more than us shipping their default wallpaper.
> If the time we wasted with this decision would have been spend on
> hacking on or thinking about Shell, we and they would already be better off.

GNOME is just one piece from the Fedora Desktop (and the Fedora OS for
that matters). X.org is another piece, Firefox is another piece and so on.

> 3) What Fedora needs most of all is more end-user focus, IMO. I love the
> upstream work we are doing, but the areas we need to improve is UI
> polish, marketing and quality control. The first two things are areas
> where we in the design team can help. We need to develop a strong visual
> brand that the Marketing Team can use to propel us to a place on the
> desktop alongside people like Ubuntu. We are technically better, let's
> also be better in the other areas too!

Fully agreed, our desktop is full of flaws and deliberated
regressions... in F14 I can't even set my desktop wallpaper to be used
ad default, also in GDM???

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:34 PM
"Fabian A. Scherschel"
 
Default GNOME background in Fedora 15

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro> wrote:



The truth is, is was our deliberate decision to make the branding soft

to encourage the re-use of our artwork and derivatives. It was also made

to avoid possible trademark problems.

Yes, I know. I believe that was a mistake, but what's done is done. Also, I'm not criticising you for stuff that happened when I wasn't aboard, that would be quite inappropriate.
*


GNOME is just one piece from the Fedora Desktop (and the Fedora OS *for

that matters). X.org is another piece, Firefox is another piece and so on.
Yes, a very good point. Gnome *is* a huge part, but still, we have to consider where this could lead to down the road.*


Fab
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:22 AM
Catalin
 
Default GNOME background in Fedora 15

Good point Fab with :"where this could lead to down the road."
Gnome is just one desktop environment. Gnome team seems serious.
There are other desktop environment, why not have taken the position of Gnome?
Will come on April and will have some features, this is clear .
What could happen?
It's an opportunity?
I say it's nothing to lose.

2010/12/21 Fabian A. Scherschel <fab@sixgun.org>:
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro>
> wrote:
>>
>> The truth is, is was our deliberate decision to make the branding soft
>> to encourage the re-use of our artwork and derivatives. It was also made
>> to avoid possible trademark problems.
>
> Yes, I know. I believe that was a mistake, but what's done is done. Also,
> I'm not criticising you for stuff that happened when I wasn't aboard, that
> would be quite inappropriate.
>
>>
>> GNOME is just one piece from the Fedora Desktop (and the Fedora OS *for
>> that matters). X.org is another piece, Firefox is another piece and so on.
>
> Yes, a very good point. Gnome *is* a huge part, but still, we have to
> consider where this could lead to down the road.
>
> Fab
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>



--
My sites:
http://catalin-festila.blogspot.com -about me
http://tv.free-tutorials.org - video tutorials
http://python-catalin.blogspot.com - my python blog
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:18 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default GNOME background in Fedora 15

Nicu Buculei (nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro) said:
> > That's continuity within a release, yes. What I'm saying is that there's
> > very little continuity of the artwork from release to release *other* than
> > the color; some are more abstract, some are less, some are sharper (like
> > F-14), some are more soft-focus (like F-13).
>
> We owe a lot of thanks for this to our friends is the RHDT who killed
> identity projects like Nodoka and Echo and now will completely change
> the desktop theme to a dark one with F15.

I was talking about the wallpaper. You apparently like to rehash other
things...

> > What I intended to say is that given that, I would think that a random
> > outside observer could look at *any* distro that has a blue, non-photograph
> > background, and think "hm, must be Fedora", unless they already know which
> > sort of blue backgrounds Fedora has chosen.
>
> It would give me a warm smile seeing this happening.

Then I suggest you join the OpenSUSE and Ubuntu design teams and convince
them to adopt blue backgrounds. Perhaps talk to Apple & Microsoft too, and
maybe Google for Chrome OS. That's the most direct and logical choice
to achieve that.

Given our current desktop trends, the only way you get 'coffeeshop' brand identity
currently is:

- have people know what Fedora is (unlikely)
- have people know that Fedora backgrounds are ... blue (probably likely,
given the first)
- show them something Linux-y with a blue background

There is no way that the proposed background breaks this chain.

Bill
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