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-   -   Self Introduction / Fedora startpage (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-design-team/457053-self-introduction-fedora-startpage.html)

Vinzenz Vietzke 11-24-2010 02:29 PM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
Hi Design Team!

since I'm new to this list I'd like to shortly introduce myself:
My name is Vinzenz Vietzke, I'm 26 years old and live in Augsburg,
southern Germany. I am working as educator/pre-school teacher. More
about my work in the Linux community can be found on my wiki page (see
signature).

I reworked "start.fedoraproject.org" and made some mock-ups which can be
seen in the wiki:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz/Projects#Fedora_startpage

I did not open a ticket, because I'd like to discuss at first. So it
would be great if you all could have a look and comment on my work. :)

Regards,
vinz
--
Vinzenz Vietzke
m: vinz@fedoraproject.org
wk: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz
mb: https://identi.ca/vinzv | https://twitter.com/vinzv
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Misha Shnurapet 11-24-2010 03:34 PM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
24.11.2010, 23:29, "Vinzenz Vietzke" <vinz@fedoraproject.org>:
> Hi Design Team!
>
> since I'm new to this list I'd like to shortly introduce myself:
> My name is Vinzenz Vietzke, I'm 26 years old and live in Augsburg,
> southern Germany. I am working as educator/pre-school teacher. More
> about my work in the Linux community can be found on my wiki page (see
> signature).
>
> I reworked "start.fedoraproject.org" and made some mock-ups which can be
> seen in the wiki:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz/Projects#Fedora_startpage
>
> I did not open a ticket, because I'd like to discuss at first. So it
> would be great if you all could have a look and comment on my work. :)
>
> Regards,
> vinz

Hi, Vinz.

I like v2 so much!

--
Best regards,
Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Shnurapet
shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, GPG: 00217306
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Vinzenz Vietzke 11-24-2010 03:49 PM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
Am 24.11.2010 17:34, schrieb Misha Shnurapet:
> 24.11.2010, 23:29, "Vinzenz Vietzke"<vinz@fedoraproject.org>:
>> > Hi Design Team!
>> >
>> > since I'm new to this list I'd like to shortly introduce myself:
>> > My name is Vinzenz Vietzke, I'm 26 years old and live in Augsburg,
>> > southern Germany. I am working as educator/pre-school teacher. More
>> > about my work in the Linux community can be found on my wiki page (see
>> > signature).
>> >
>> > I reworked "start.fedoraproject.org" and made some mock-ups which can be
>> > seen in the wiki:
>> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz/Projects#Fedora_startpage
>> >
>> > I did not open a ticket, because I'd like to discuss at first. So it
>> > would be great if you all could have a look and comment on my work.:)
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > vinz
> Hi, Vinz.
>
> I like v2 so much!
Hi Misha,

do you miss something? Like a login for FAS or some special (or even
different) links below the Fedora logo?

vinz.
--
Vinzenz Vietzke
m: vinz@fedoraproject.org
wk: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz
mb: https://identi.ca/vinzv | https://twitter.com/vinzv
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Jef van Schendel 11-24-2010 07:02 PM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
2010/11/24 Vinzenz Vietzke <vinz@fedoraproject.org>

Hi Design Team!



since I'm new to this list I'd like to shortly introduce myself:

My name is Vinzenz Vietzke, I'm 26 years old and live in Augsburg,

southern Germany. I am working as educator/pre-school teacher. More

about my work in the Linux community can be found on my wiki page (see

signature).

Hi Vinzenz, and welcome! :)
*


I reworked "start.fedoraproject.org" and made some mock-ups which can be

seen in the wiki:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz/Projects#Fedora_startpage

*I've also been working on the start.fpo page and trying to make it fit in with the new www.fpo design.


I made a mockup [1] which has the same content as the current Start page, but with the redesigned header and footer. Together with Sijis I put together a working prototype [2]. As you can see we added two RSS feeds to the page with announcements and Fedora Planet posts.


Looking back I don't think I announced any of this on the Websites or Design Team mailing lists, which wasn't smart. After all, if it's not on the list, it didn't happen. ;)

That said, I really like your mockups and how clean they look. Especially v3, with the Creative Commons icons. I think that's a much better way of showing the different licenses.


So my suggestion is to put both of these concepts together and make one really fantastic Start page. :)

Here's a few thoughts:

- We'd like to use the same footer across all the different Fedora websites, so I think we should keep that. It's big and has a lot of content, but on the other hand it's content that fits really well on a Start page. Also, we can remove the Release Notes, Join, etc links if we use that footer.


- As I said I love the CC icons as filters, but they could be a little closer to the actual search bar, so it's clear what they're used for. I think the "dropdown + button + CC logo" combo I currently have in place looks ugly, so maybe we can simply put them there?


- I'm not sure what to do about the RSS feeds. Initially I resisted against adding them, because I felt the page would go from a clean and simple Start page to a full-blown hub. On the other hand, they contain a lot of good and up-to-date information about what's happening in the community. What do you (and others who want to join in!) think, are they valuable enough to keep? Or is it a step too far?


- I think the Board has talked before about changing the content and function of start.fpo, but I can't remember what the consensus was. This is why I kept the current content and only worked on the appearance (just like you did). I think that's the best way to go for now. We can always change it in the future.


Jef


[1] http://schendje.fedorapeople.org/temp/mockup2.png
[2] http://start.stg.fedoraproject.org/


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Vinzenz Vietzke 11-24-2010 09:07 PM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
Hi Jef,

Am 24.11.2010 21:02, schrieb Jef van Schendel:
> So my suggestion is to put both of these concepts together and make one
> really fantastic Start page.:)
Here we go! :)

> - We'd like to use the same footer across all the different Fedora websites,
> so I think we should keep that. It's big and has a lot of content, but on
> the other hand it's content that fits really well on a Start page. Also, we
> can remove the Release Notes, Join, etc links if we use that footer.
I think using the same footer on "regular" websites like www.fpo or
get.fpo is absolutely necessary. But on such a special site like
start.fpo I think it would be better not to "rush" the user with
content. Especially new users would just get struck by all this
information and would overlook the search bar as core functionality.

>
> - As I said I love the CC icons as filters, but they could be a little
> closer to the actual search bar, so it's clear what they're used for. I
> think the "dropdown + button + CC logo" combo I currently have in place
> looks ugly, so maybe we can simply put them there?
Sounds good to me. Have a look: [2]
>
> - I'm not sure what to do about the RSS feeds. Initially I resisted against
> adding them, because I felt the page would go from a clean and simple Start
> page to a full-blown hub. On the other hand, they contain a lot of good and
> up-to-date information about what's happening in the community. What do you
> (and others who want to join in!) think, are they valuable enough to keep?
> Or is it a step too far?
Maybe we should talk about two different sites:
* welcome.fedoraproject.org
Think of it looking like my v3 with a "compressed" standard footer. [1]
This site should only contain the searching functionality since it's
intended as browser home page.
The only additional function I'd add would be a link named "switch to
daily start page" or so, which updates the browser home page to a
start.fedoraproject.org variant as stated below.

* start.fedoraproject.org
On this site I'd place things like RSS feeds, tweets, rotating photo
galleries etc. Something like a portal but only with aggregated content
so no daily maintenance would be needed.
Perhaps pushing planet.fpo unfiltered to this site should be rethought
since there are sometimes quite useless postings like "i have voted" or
so. Maybe someone should pick the 20-30 most "valuable" ones and tell
the blog owners about the fact that their posts will appear on
start.fpo. In this way a little quality assurance would be given.

vinz.

[1] http://vinz.fedorapeople.org/start.fpo/compressed-footer.png
[2] http://vinz.fedorapeople.org/start.fpo/v4.png
--
Vinzenz Vietzke
m: vinz@fedoraproject.org
wk: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz
mb: https://identi.ca/vinzv | https://twitter.com/vinzv
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Misha Shnurapet 11-25-2010 01:13 AM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
25.11.2010, 06:07, "Vinzenz Vietzke" <vinz@fedoraproject.org>:
> I think using the same footer on "regular" websites like www.fpo or
> get.fpo is absolutely necessary. But on such a special site like
> start.fpo I think it would be better not to "rush" the user with
> content. Especially new users would just get struck by all this
> information and would overlook the search bar as core functionality.

I also think that a start page should be as clean as possible and only contain a branded search bar [1], [2].

[1] http://www.google.ru/firefox
[2] http://firefox.yandex.ru/

25.11.2010, 04:02, "Jef van Schendel" <jefvanschendel@gmail.com>:
> - As I said I love the CC icons as filters, but they could be a little closer to the actual search bar, so it's clear what they're used for. I think the "dropdown + button + CC logo" combo I currently have in place looks ugly, so maybe we can simply put them there?

Agree, a good place for switchers would be right under the search bar.

--
Best regards,
Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Shnurapet
shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, GPG: 00217306
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Nicu Buculei 11-25-2010 06:27 AM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
On 11/24/2010 10:02 PM, Jef van Schendel wrote:
> I made a mockup [1] which has the same content as the current Start
> page, but with the redesigned header and footer. Together with Sijis I
> put together a working prototype [2]. As you can see we added two RSS
> feeds to the page with announcements and Fedora Planet posts.
>
> Looking back I don't think I announced any of this on the Websites or
> Design Team mailing lists, which wasn't smart. After all, if it's not on
> the list, it didn't happen. ;)

That's so true... :)

> - I think the Board has talked before about changing the content and
> function of start.fpo, but I can't remember what the consensus was. This
> is why I kept the current content and only worked on the appearance
> (just like you did). I think that's the best way to go for now. We can
> always change it in the future.

IIRC, there was no consensus reached.
An important amount of people have concerns about us relying
on/promoting a proprietary service. There are also voices saying some
other projects receive money from Google for something like this. And
other voices pointing to the little value of having a Google search when
the default browser (Firefox) has the search box inside its UI.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
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Vinzenz Vietzke 11-25-2010 08:03 AM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
Am 25.11.2010 08:27, schrieb Nicu Buculei:
> IIRC, there was no consensus reached.
> An important amount of people have concerns about us relying
> on/promoting a proprietary service. There are also voices saying some
> other projects receive money from Google for something like this. And
> other voices pointing to the little value of having a Google search when
> the default browser (Firefox) has the search box inside its UI.
1) Switching to some more free/libre web search is a honorable idea, but
IMHO there is no service around which is nearly as stable and as
reliable as google, yahoo, bing and so on. Projects like yacy are good
efforts to offer independent ways of searching but with a start page for
new users we should have an eye on highest reliability.

2) That's right. Ubuntu is earning money from Google and even from
Microsoft for placing Bing second on the search field. I think that can
cut both ways: On the one hand you get money for your project and can
"do something good". But on the other hand you leave the noble goals a
bit behind or even sell a piece of your soul. ;-)
At the moment Fedora is promoting Google. But why not take money for that?

3) The search field in Firefox is nice for users which are used to it.
But for the absolutely new user a big friendly search box in the middle
is much more comfortable.

vinz.
--
Vinzenz Vietzke
m: vinz@fedoraproject.org
wk: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz
mb: https://identi.ca/vinzv | https://twitter.com/vinzv
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Nicu Buculei 11-25-2010 08:11 AM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
On 11/25/2010 11:03 AM, Vinzenz Vietzke wrote:
> Am 25.11.2010 08:27, schrieb Nicu Buculei:
>> IIRC, there was no consensus reached.
>> An important amount of people have concerns about us relying
>> on/promoting a proprietary service. There are also voices saying some
>> other projects receive money from Google for something like this. And
>> other voices pointing to the little value of having a Google search when
>> the default browser (Firefox) has the search box inside its UI.
> 1) Switching to some more free/libre web search is a honorable idea, but
> IMHO there is no service around which is nearly as stable and as
> reliable as google, yahoo, bing and so on. Projects like yacy are good
> efforts to offer independent ways of searching but with a start page for
> new users we should have an eye on highest reliability.

This is the Board decision to make and I remember all those points were
raised in that discussion.

> 2) That's right. Ubuntu is earning money from Google and even from
> Microsoft for placing Bing second on the search field. I think that can
> cut both ways: On the one hand you get money for your project and can
> "do something good". But on the other hand you leave the noble goals a
> bit behind or even sell a piece of your soul. ;-)
> At the moment Fedora is promoting Google. But why not take money for that?

Apparently we bring them an amount of users little enough to worth money.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
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Vinzenz Vietzke 11-25-2010 09:03 AM

Self Introduction / Fedora startpage
 
Am 25.11.2010 10:11, schrieb Nicu Buculei:
>> At the moment Fedora is promoting Google. But why not take money for that?
> Apparently we bring them an amount of users little enough to worth money.
>
Oh well... Should have thought of that. :)
--
Vinzenz Vietzke
m: vinz@fedoraproject.org
wk: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Vinz
mb: https://identi.ca/vinzv | https://twitter.com/vinzv
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