--September 10, 2010
 

Just a couple of issues that were brought forward from the latest Owners
and (Co) Maintainers Email Meeting that require some public opinion
regarding future action(s).

Cheers


--
Chris Jones <chrisjones@comcen.com.au>


****************************


Gnome-Shell:

There's no doubt whether we like it or not, the Gnome-Shell will be
implemented as the replacement and default desktop environment for
Fedora including its Spin Desktops, somewhere along the line.

Personally, I'm no fan of the Gnome-Shell (Gnome 3), hence my own
complete migration to the KDE4 desktop environment in the previous
weeks.

I am curious as to how Gnome-Shell is going to affect the Spins? ie.
Design Suite Spin.

Will it affect performance and productivity?
And how much control do we have in blocking it for a desktop spin?
And should we be blocking it?


***************************

Inkscape desktop icon:

I am not happy with the current process of having a Inkscape icon and
link on the desktop upon a fresh install of the Design Suite Spin.

To me, it simply does not make sense and poses more questions that what
it answers.

It's easy enough to remove using the kickstart config. But before I go
and do that, I require the opinions of others.


***************************

Owners and (Co) Maintainers Email Meetings:

Next meeting due date-- September 22, 2010


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--September 10, 2010
 

On 09/10/2010 03:40 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
>
> Gnome-Shell:
>
> There's no doubt whether we like it or not, the Gnome-Shell will be
> implemented as the replacement and default desktop environment for
> Fedora including its Spin Desktops, somewhere along the line.
>
> Personally, I'm no fan of the Gnome-Shell (Gnome 3), hence my own
> complete migration to the KDE4 desktop environment in the previous
> weeks.
>
> I am curious as to how Gnome-Shell is going to affect the Spins? ie.
> Design Suite Spin.
>
> Will it affect performance and productivity?
> And how much control do we have in blocking it for a desktop spin?
> And should we be blocking it?

Gnome-Shell is part of GNOME 3 which was postponed (at least) until the
next spring, so I expect our Design Suite to default to the classic
panel in F14.

> Inkscape desktop icon:
>
> I am not happy with the current process of having a Inkscape icon and
> link on the desktop upon a fresh install of the Design Suite Spin.
>
> To me, it simply does not make sense and poses more questions that what
> it answers.
>
> It's easy enough to remove using the kickstart config. But before I go
> and do that, I require the opinions of others.

-1 to having application icons on the desktop, they are in the menu and
if the users want them on the desktop, it is trivial.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
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--September 10, 2010
 

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro> wrote:
> On 09/10/2010 03:40 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
>>
>> Gnome-Shell:
>>
>> There's no doubt whether we like it or not, the Gnome-Shell will be
>> implemented as the replacement and default desktop environment for
>> Fedora including its Spin Desktops, somewhere along the line.
>>
>> Personally, I'm no fan of the Gnome-Shell (Gnome 3), hence my own
>> complete migration to the KDE4 desktop environment in the previous
>> weeks.
>>
>> I am curious as to how Gnome-Shell is going to affect the Spins? ie.
>> Design Suite Spin.
>>
>> Will it affect performance and productivity?
>> And how much control do we have in blocking it for a desktop spin?
>> And should we be blocking it?
>
> Gnome-Shell is part of GNOME 3 which was postponed (at least) until the
> next spring, so I expect our Design Suite to default to the classic
> panel in F14.

That's what I heard, too. We should be good here.

>> Inkscape desktop icon:
>>
>> I am not happy with the current process of having a Inkscape icon and
>> link on the desktop upon a fresh install of the Design Suite Spin.
>>
>> To me, it simply does not make sense and poses more questions that what
>> it answers.
>>
>> It's easy enough to remove using the kickstart config. But before I go
>> and do that, I require the opinions of others.
>
> -1 to having application icons on the desktop, they are in the menu and
> if the users want them on the desktop, it is trivial.

I added this icon in the first place to enable people to access
further resources. I feel that Mo's introduction of Inkscape to
students is a resource we should link to (for those who don't know:
http://opensource.com/education/10/4/introducing-open-source-middle-school).
I'd like to see us expanding that - whether these links should be on
the desktop or in the browser or some other place is certainly
debatable, though. :)

--Sebastian

> --
> nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
> photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
> my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
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--September 10, 2010
 

On 09/11/2010 10:50 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote:
>> -1 to having application icons on the desktop, they are in the menu and
>> if the users want them on the desktop, it is trivial.
>
> I added this icon in the first place to enable people to access
> further resources. I feel that Mo's introduction of Inkscape to
> students is a resource we should link to (for those who don't know:
> http://opensource.com/education/10/4/introducing-open-source-middle-school).
> I'd like to see us expanding that - whether these links should be on
> the desktop or in the browser or some other place is certainly
> debatable, though. :)

IMO, a default cluttered desktop makes us feel like OEMs adding tons of
crapware on their Windows pre-installs.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
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--September 10, 2010
 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro> wrote:
> On 09/11/2010 10:50 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Nicu Buculei *wrote:
>>> -1 to having application icons on the desktop, they are in the menu and
>>> if the users want them on the desktop, it is trivial.
>>
>> I added this icon in the first place to enable people to access
>> further resources. I feel that Mo's introduction of Inkscape to
>> students is a resource we should link to (for those who don't know:
>> http://opensource.com/education/10/4/introducing-open-source-middle-school).
>> I'd like to see us expanding that - whether these links should be on
>> the desktop or in the browser or some other place is certainly
>> debatable, though. :)
>
> IMO, a default cluttered desktop makes us feel like OEMs adding tons of
> crapware on their Windows pre-installs.

Good point Nicu :) Although we definitely need something on the
desktop to differentiate from the Desktop Edition.

>
> --
> nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
> photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>



--
Pierros Papadeas
PGP key: 0x6130DBF8
http://pierros.papadeas.gr
pierros@papadeas.gr
liknus @ GRnet , Freenode
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--September 10, 2010
 

On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 09:33 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> On 09/11/2010 10:50 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> >> -1 to having application icons on the desktop, they are in the menu and
> >> if the users want them on the desktop, it is trivial.
> >
> > I added this icon in the first place to enable people to access
> > further resources. I feel that Mo's introduction of Inkscape to
> > students is a resource we should link to (for those who don't know:
> > http://opensource.com/education/10/4/introducing-open-source-middle-school).
> > I'd like to see us expanding that - whether these links should be on
> > the desktop or in the browser or some other place is certainly
> > debatable, though. :)
>
> IMO, a default cluttered desktop makes us feel like OEMs adding tons of
> crapware on their Windows pre-installs.

I think as Sebastian mentioned, they are there because I've been using
the spin primarily for teaching students (some quite young) Inkscape and
other free graphics tools. I'm starting a new program next month with
the Girl Scouts in Boston.

The reason is primarily so the students see right away what apps they
are supposed to use, but I think if we can do custom menus maybe that
would be better than desktop icons? Eg. I think some of the tools show
up in accessories, some in office, some in graphics, some in sound &
video. It might be nicer to have a designer-centric menu layout?

There is also a folder on the desktop with desktop icons to link out to
tutorials. I wish there was a better way to present these; would be nice
if they could be linked from within the specific apps.

~m

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--September 10, 2010
 

Just some notes and responses I've made to the following replies.


***************************************
@ Nicu Buculei
Gnome-Shell is part of GNOME 3 which was postponed (at least) until the
next spring, so I expect our Design Suite to default to the classic
panel in F14.

-1 to having application icons on the desktop, they are in the menu and
if the users want them on the desktop, it is trivial.


Reply--
I am well aware that is has been postponed and yes, F14 will be Gnome
2.x based.
What I was bringing up is do we want the Design Suite to move to the new
Gnome-Shell.
But due to the responses and feedback that I've seen so far, it seems
users are more than happy to have the Spin move to the new Shell
platform. So for now, we'll consider this matter resolved and satisfied.

Regarding the aforementioned icons on the desktop, I think I will keep
this open for some more discussion and consultation before we make a
final decision on whether we should remove the icons and leave the
current one there and add more.


***************************************
@Sebastian Dziallas

I added this icon in the first place to enable people to access
further resources. I feel that Mo's introduction of Inkscape to
students is a resource we should link to (for those who don't know:
http://opensource.com/education/10/4/introducing-open-source-middle-school).
I'd like to see us expanding that - whether these links should be on
the desktop or in the browser or some other place is certainly
debatable, though. :)


Reply--
As mentioned above, this matter is still open for discussion. ;-)


***************************************
@Pierros Papadeas

Good point Nicu :) Although we definitely need something on the
desktop to differentiate from the Desktop Edition.


Reply--
This could be done by other means of course. ;-)
I have some thoughts on this.


***************************************
@Mairin Duffy

I think as Sebastian mentioned, they are there because I've been using
the spin primarily for teaching students (some quite young) Inkscape and
other free graphics tools. I'm starting a new program next month with
the Girl Scouts in Boston.

The reason is primarily so the students see right away what apps they
are supposed to use, but I think if we can do custom menus maybe that
would be better than desktop icons? Eg. I think some of the tools show
up in accessories, some in office, some in graphics, some in sound &
video. It might be nicer to have a designer-centric menu layout?

There is also a folder on the desktop with desktop icons to link out to
tutorials. I wish there was a better way to present these; would be nice
if they could be linked from within the specific apps.


Reply--
I don't like the idea of linking them within the apps. Not only would
this be very difficult, but also very intrusive and could be seen as
forcing them upon the user. When clearly there are some users out there
who don't want them present in the first place.

I think we do have to get them off the desktop. And in the application
menu sounds probably the best option. Not by creating a whole new menu
layout but perhaps by simply adding it into a new menu with the tab
title "Tutorials" or something similar.


--
Chris Jones <chrisjones@comcen.com.au>

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--September 10, 2010
 

On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 18:43 +1000, Chris Jones wrote:
> I don't like the idea of linking them within the apps. Not only would
> this be very difficult, but also very intrusive and could be seen as
> forcing them upon the user. When clearly there are some users out there
> who don't want them present in the first place.
>
> I think we do have to get them off the desktop. And in the application
> menu sounds probably the best option. Not by creating a whole new menu
> layout but perhaps by simply adding it into a new menu with the tab
> title "Tutorials" or something similar.

I would prefer us to not take the desktop icons away until a suitable
alternative solution is in place.

~m

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--September 10, 2010
 

On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 07:25 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> I would prefer us to not take the desktop icons away until a suitable
> alternative solution is in place.
>
> ~m

But you clearly said that you would like the see them implemented into
the Gnome Application Menu. Did I read your post wrong?

Regards


--
Chris Jones <chrisjones@comcen.com.au>

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--September 10, 2010
 

On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 09:18 +1000, Chris Jones wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 07:25 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> > I would prefer us to not take the desktop icons away until a suitable
> > alternative solution is in place.
> >
> > ~m
>
> But you clearly said that you would like the see them implemented into
> the Gnome Application Menu. Did I read your post wrong?

That was a suggestion and a perfectly acceptable alternative way of
presenting the apps if they are organized better than they currently are
in the GNOME apps menu.

~m

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