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Old 01-09-2009, 09:45 AM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Discussion About Echo Perspective

Hi all,

I've just posted a poll about Echo Perspective on Fedora Forum [1] to
see our user base opinion and I'd like to hear the opinions of the Art
Team members as well. As you are probably aware of, we are starting Echo
Perspective and are selecting the designs to start with. All the design
concepts are displayed together in our latest monthly issue [2].

I'd like to hear your opinions about these designs as I don't want this
decision to be two people + user base poll only, and I'd like to see
more people from the Art Team involved. Also being it the Art Team, I'd
like this to be rather discussion than handful of +/-1 ;-)

Thanks,
Martin

PS: Note for new members: do not hesitate to join the discussion, your
opinion is as important to us as that of the "old" members

References:
[1] http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=210159
[2] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/wiki/MonthlyNews/Issue4-5

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Old 01-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Mark
 
Default Discussion About Echo Perspective

2009/1/9 Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> I've just posted a poll about Echo Perspective on Fedora Forum [1] to
> see our user base opinion and I'd like to hear the opinions of the Art
> Team members as well. As you are probably aware of, we are starting Echo
> Perspective and are selecting the designs to start with. All the design
> concepts are displayed together in our latest monthly issue [2].
>
> I'd like to hear your opinions about these designs as I don't want this
> decision to be two people + user base poll only, and I'd like to see
> more people from the Art Team involved. Also being it the Art Team, I'd
> like this to be rather discussion than handful of +/-1 ;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Martin
>
> PS: Note for new members: do not hesitate to join the discussion, your
> opinion is as important to us as that of the "old" members
>
> References:
> [1] http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=210159
> [2] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/wiki/MonthlyNews/Issue4-5

Hi martin,

first of all i would like to say that i like the icons (color style).
The shit looking color (i really mean shit) is out now and that really
improves the icons that used brown.

But now something i don't understand. You seemed to be a person
heavily in favor of the isometric perspective.. what happened with
that idea? is isometric gone and is this the "new" idea?
For isometric it was relatively unique in both style and idea but this
"new" perspective is nearly plain flat. I like the icons but they are
not "new" and there are better looking ones out there. If you're going
for this "new" idea then you can better just quit and use tango icon
library and improve that where needed. The icons you've made already
look a lot like tango.

I never fully understood why a new theme had to be made anyway. I did
(with isometric perspective) offer something different then tango but
now with the flat design it simply doesn't offer anything new or
better or revolutionary or anything.

So please just using/modifying tango instead of making a new icon
theme that looks nearly the same. Also other applications (pidgen and
openoffice (i could be wrong about this one) and a range of other
applications already use tango as there default icons so the full
desktop experience will probably be a lot better if that's all just
using tango. I know you can modify about every app in the fedora repo
to have the icons you've developed but that's, to me, just a waste of
developer time.

Don't get me wrong! i like your icons! i just thing that there is
already a icon theme exactly like it called Tango.

Good luck,
Mark

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Old 01-11-2009, 06:14 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Discussion About Echo Perspective

On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 16:56 +0100, Mark wrote:
> Hi martin,
Hi Mark,
>
> But now something i don't understand. You seemed to be a person
> heavily in favor of the isometric perspective.. what happened with
> that idea? is isometric gone and is this the "new" idea?
> For isometric it was relatively unique in both style and idea but this
> "new" perspective is nearly plain flat. I like the icons but they are
> not "new" and there are better looking ones out there. If you're going
> for this "new" idea then you can better just quit and use tango icon
> library and improve that where needed. The icons you've made already
> look a lot like tango.
>
We aim with Echo to be the default icon set in Fedora. Because of the
reasons you stated bellow it's better to make Echo as much consistent
with gnome-icon-theme *and* oxygen as possible. Yet, we'd like to keep
the Echo feel (that's why we cannot *just* modify tango). You can think
of it as echo stylised tango. One the other hand, we'll continue with
the isometric icons as well for those who'd like to have something more
unique.

In short, Echo Perspective aims to be good default, moderately
consistent with upstream defaults, Echo <whatever> aims to be a unique
set utilising different kind of projection (we use the dimetric
projection, in our guidelines still called "isometric perspective") than
most icon themes use.

> I never fully understood why a new theme had to be made anyway. I did
> (with isometric perspective) offer something different then tango but
> now with the flat design it simply doesn't offer anything new or
> better or revolutionary or anything.
>
> So please just using/modifying tango instead of making a new icon
> theme that looks nearly the same. Also other applications (pidgen and
> openoffice (i could be wrong about this one) and a range of other
> applications already use tango as there default icons so the full
> desktop experience will probably be a lot better if that's all just
> using tango. I know you can modify about every app in the fedora repo
> to have the icons you've developed but that's, to me, just a waste of
> developer time.
>
> Don't get me wrong! i like your icons! i just thing that there is
> already a icon theme exactly like it called Tango.
>
We'd like to be moderately consistent with Tango, but we want more
lively colours and perhaps more realistic feel. It means the development
can be way faster because we can reuse already developed tango or oxygen
icons, only restyle them to have echo feel. But in some cases - e.g.
folder or trash - we'd like to have more unique design. I also tried to
do the same with the display - if you compare tango/mango/gnome/oxygen
displays to my design, you'll notice many differences (personally, I
don't the tango/mango design and the gnome design uses CRT monitor,
which is sort of outdated).

> Good luck,
> Mark
Thanks you for your comments and questions,
Martin

PS: If it goes on like this, I think we could have enough material to
make a short FAQ page for Echo ;-)
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:41 PM
Mark
 
Default Discussion About Echo Perspective

2009/1/11 Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com>:
> On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 16:56 +0100, Mark wrote:
>> Hi martin,
> Hi Mark,
>>
>> But now something i don't understand. You seemed to be a person
>> heavily in favor of the isometric perspective.. what happened with
>> that idea? is isometric gone and is this the "new" idea?
>> For isometric it was relatively unique in both style and idea but this
>> "new" perspective is nearly plain flat. I like the icons but they are
>> not "new" and there are better looking ones out there. If you're going
>> for this "new" idea then you can better just quit and use tango icon
>> library and improve that where needed. The icons you've made already
>> look a lot like tango.
>>
> We aim with Echo to be the default icon set in Fedora. Because of the
> reasons you stated bellow it's better to make Echo as much consistent
> with gnome-icon-theme *and* oxygen as possible. Yet, we'd like to keep
> the Echo feel (that's why we cannot *just* modify tango). You can think
> of it as echo stylised tango. One the other hand, we'll continue with
> the isometric icons as well for those who'd like to have something more
> unique.
>
> In short, Echo Perspective aims to be good default, moderately
> consistent with upstream defaults, Echo <whatever> aims to be a unique
> set utilising different kind of projection (we use the dimetric
> projection, in our guidelines still called "isometric perspective") than
> most icon themes use.
>
>> I never fully understood why a new theme had to be made anyway. I did
>> (with isometric perspective) offer something different then tango but
>> now with the flat design it simply doesn't offer anything new or
>> better or revolutionary or anything.
>>
>> So please just using/modifying tango instead of making a new icon
>> theme that looks nearly the same. Also other applications (pidgen and
>> openoffice (i could be wrong about this one) and a range of other
>> applications already use tango as there default icons so the full
>> desktop experience will probably be a lot better if that's all just
>> using tango. I know you can modify about every app in the fedora repo
>> to have the icons you've developed but that's, to me, just a waste of
>> developer time.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong! i like your icons! i just thing that there is
>> already a icon theme exactly like it called Tango.
>>
> We'd like to be moderately consistent with Tango, but we want more
> lively colours and perhaps more realistic feel. It means the development
> can be way faster because we can reuse already developed tango or oxygen
> icons, only restyle them to have echo feel. But in some cases - e.g.
> folder or trash - we'd like to have more unique design. I also tried to
> do the same with the display - if you compare tango/mango/gnome/oxygen
> displays to my design, you'll notice many differences (personally, I
> don't the tango/mango design and the gnome design uses CRT monitor,
> which is sort of outdated).

Good to see you changed your opinion here a bit with previous
statements. You used to say that echo was unique and could not use
modified oxygen or tango icons (or something along those lines).
Anyways (your right about the monitor) you could mix the icons with
http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG as well.
>
>> Good luck,
>> Mark
> Thanks you for your comments and questions,
> Martin
>
> PS: If it goes on like this, I think we could have enough material to
> make a short FAQ page for Echo ;-)

possible. i prefer questions answered by the creator (mainly you in
this case) and not by some FAQ ^_^
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora-art-list mailing list
> Fedora-art-list@redhat.com
> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
>
>

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Old 01-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Discussion About Echo Perspective

On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 21:41 +0100, Mark wrote:
> Good to see you changed your opinion here a bit with previous
> statements. You used to say that echo was unique and could not use
> modified oxygen or tango icons (or something along those lines).
> Anyways (your right about the monitor) you could mix the icons with
> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG as well.
Yep, I keep an eye on it pretty close. I think they call it Mango! now
rather than Tango-NG though... And yup, my opinions are not set in
stone, so they gradually change, I'd say evolve, though usually rather
slowly >_<

> possible. i prefer questions answered by the creator (mainly you in
> this case) and not by some FAQ ^_^

FAQ is basically the same, only indirectly. Though I don't mind very
much answering the same questions over and over again (usually those of
the when-it-will-be-done type), FAQ might be a good place for me to
store the some of the more useful Q/A –_^

Martin
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