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Old 10-24-2008, 10:34 PM
"Clint Savage"
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

So I got bored today while giving an RHCT exam and while waiting at
the airport. I made these buttons, let me know what you think...

http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo2.png
http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo3.png
http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo4.png

Cheers,

Clint

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Old 10-24-2008, 10:38 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

Clint Savage wrote:
> So I got bored today while giving an RHCT exam and while waiting at
> the airport. I made these buttons, let me know what you think...
>
> http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo2.png
> http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo3.png
> http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo4.png

SWEET!

I really like the pattern in the background of the logo2 file.

Logo3 is really strong, well done!

I think logo4 might look better without the dashed line at
all and maybe a darker background color.

Do you know how to scribus-ify these into print-ready,
color-safe PDF artwork?

~m

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Old 10-24-2008, 11:21 PM
Ian Weller
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 04:34:32PM -0600, Clint Savage wrote:
> So I got bored today while giving an RHCT exam and while waiting at
> the airport. I made these buttons, let me know what you think...
>
Very nice! I like #2 the best.

--
Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:21 PM
Ian Weller
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 04:34:32PM -0600, Clint Savage wrote:
> So I got bored today while giving an RHCT exam and while waiting at
> the airport. I made these buttons, let me know what you think...
>
Very nice! I like #2 the best.

--
Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
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Old 10-25-2008, 06:09 AM
"Clint Savage"
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Clint Savage wrote:
>> So I got bored today while giving an RHCT exam and while waiting at
>> the airport. I made these buttons, let me know what you think...
>>
>> http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo2.png
>> http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo3.png
>> http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo4.png
>
> SWEET!
>
> I really like the pattern in the background of the logo2 file.
>
> Logo3 is really strong, well done!
>
> I think logo4 might look better without the dashed line at
> all and maybe a darker background color.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if they would be good enough. The dashed line
is basically to indicate the edge of the button, but I can take it
off.

> Do you know how to scribus-ify these into print-ready,
> color-safe PDF artwork?

I do. I have done that before many times. I'll look into doing that
on sunday. I assume you are referring to the fact that I need to make
the images CMYK and making them pdfs so printers won't complain. I'm
capable of doing that

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Cheers,

Clint

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Old 10-25-2008, 09:14 AM
Gian Paolo Mureddu
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

Clint Savage escribió:

I do. I have done that before many times. I'll look into doing that
on sunday. I assume you are referring to the fact that I need to make
the images CMYK and making them pdfs so printers won't complain. I'm
capable of doing that

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Cheers,

Clint

You don't have to do that, actually... However Scribus SVG support is
rather flaky and most of the time (except for really simple "kosher" SVG
files) you will get an error stating that some features of the file were
not supported. Also it tends to get the size "wrong", not the actual
size of the drawing, but rather it kind of adds an additional "holding
box" to the drawing. My personal recommendation when handling graphics
with Scribus would be to export to EPS and then import that into
Scribus, or export to bitmap (with the added side effect of reduced
quality and "raster artifacts" [pixelation]). Regarding color
management, I'd recommend you use the very latest snapshot of Scribus
available from the OpenSuSE repo (there is a Fedora yum repo for it)
because the one included in Fedora is quite outdated, and now largely
unsupported (v 1.3.4), then you may grab the package with ICC profiles
off Adobe's download section and install one of those ICC profiles into
scribus so you get a color managed window (it is NOT recommended to
install a printer ICC profile into Scribus unless you *REALLY* need it
and the target printer supports it). Then you can generate the desired
PDF and you may even embed an ICC profile into it to ensure proper
display/print, don't forget to select the desired target media when
generating the PDF!


my 2¢

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Old 10-25-2008, 09:15 AM
Gian Paolo Mureddu
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

Clint Savage escribió:

So I got bored today while giving an RHCT exam and while waiting at
the airport. I made these buttons, let me know what you think...

http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo2.png
http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo3.png
http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo4.png

Cheers,

Clint



Nice indeed, it would seem like #2 is the winner

However, I like them all. Nice work indeed!

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Old 10-25-2008, 02:47 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

Clint Savage wrote:

Thanks, I wasn't sure if they would be good enough. The dashed line
is basically to indicate the edge of the button, but I can take it
off.


Oh right, okay!



Do you know how to scribus-ify these into print-ready,
color-safe PDF artwork?


I do. I have done that before many times. I'll look into doing that
on sunday. I assume you are referring to the fact that I need to make
the images CMYK and making them pdfs so printers won't complain. I'm
capable of doing that


Oh okay cool. You're probably using mrdocs' svn build for Fedora then
right? (My head would have gone thru the monitor glass long ago if I was
stuck with 1.3.4) If not, you should give it a try, it makes life so
much easier!


~m

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Old 10-25-2008, 03:00 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

Hi Gian,

Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:

Clint Savage escribió:

I do. I have done that before many times. I'll look into doing that
on sunday. I assume you are referring to the fact that I need to make
the images CMYK and making them pdfs so printers won't complain. I'm
capable of doing that

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Cheers,

Clint

You don't have to do that, actually...


Why don't you need to do it? The printers must have sent the cd and
sleeve designs for Fedora 7 back and forth with me at least 20 times
before they could do anything with them. They couldn't get the colors to
come out right at all and eventually gave up (You'll note that the
Fedora 7 discs are actually purple, not blue. That's why.) That was a
nightmare and ever since I've used Scribus for setting up colors
(definitely for Fedora 9 and I think Fedora 8's media artwork) and it
just went so much more smoothly.


So I do really think you have to do it, unless you know something I
don't? ?


However Scribus SVG support is
rather flaky and most of the time (except for really simple "kosher" SVG
files) you will get an error stating that some features of the file were
not supported. Also it tends to get the size "wrong", not the actual
size of the drawing, but rather it kind of adds an additional "holding
box" to the drawing. My personal recommendation when handling graphics
with Scribus would be to export to EPS and then import that into
Scribus, or export to bitmap (with the added side effect of reduced
quality and "raster artifacts" [pixelation]). Regarding color
management, I'd recommend you use the very latest snapshot of Scribus
available from the OpenSuSE repo (there is a Fedora yum repo for it)
because the one included in Fedora is quite outdated, and now largely
unsupported (v 1.3.4), then you may grab the package with ICC profiles
off Adobe's download section and install one of those ICC profiles into
scribus so you get a color managed window (it is NOT recommended to
install a printer ICC profile into Scribus unless you *REALLY* need it
and the target printer supports it). Then you can generate the desired
PDF and you may even embed an ICC profile into it to ensure proper
display/print, don't forget to select the desired target media when
generating the PDF!


Is it effective to use the color profiles if your monitor isn't
calibrated? (I honestly don't know but I wouldn't assume so which is why
I don't bother with color profiles right now)


I assume that doing the artwork first in Inkscape and then importing it
into scribus and modifying the palette in Scribus to have the exact CMYK
colors needed will ensure the colors come out right in the end since a
CMYK value is a CMYK value (maybe not as reproducable as a spot color
but more reliable than picking blindly based on what shows up on my
monitor.) Past experience printing Fedora swag has shown this to be
close enough / true enough that I'm comfortable with this method.


However, i don't really know so much about using monitor profiles and
color profiles at all and if you do I would love some advice/help!


Thanks,
~m

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Old 10-25-2008, 05:23 PM
Gian Paolo Mureddu
 
Default Fedora F's buttons

Máirín Duffy escribió:

Hi Gian,

Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:

Clint Savage escribió:

I do. I have done that before many times. I'll look into doing that
on sunday. I assume you are referring to the fact that I need to make
the images CMYK and making them pdfs so printers won't complain. I'm
capable of doing that

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Cheers,

Clint

You don't have to do that, actually...


Why don't you need to do it? The printers must have sent the cd and
sleeve designs for Fedora 7 back and forth with me at least 20 times
before they could do anything with them. They couldn't get the colors
to come out right at all and eventually gave up (You'll note that the
Fedora 7 discs are actually purple, not blue. That's why.) That was a
nightmare and ever since I've used Scribus for setting up colors
(definitely for Fedora 9 and I think Fedora 8's media artwork) and it
just went so much more smoothly.


So I do really think you have to do it, unless you know something I
don't? ?


I wouldn't *DARE* to say I know something you don't, Mo

However in my experience (and that may very well too subjective) Scribus
can pretty much represent all colors on screen through CMYK (kind of
converting them on-the-fly, or so it would seem). I have also struggled
for the longest time to get colors right on print-outs with Linux (any
distro, pretty much any program). However since F8 (IIRC, or was it F7?)
the inclusion of lcms has actually helped a lot for color management
(still a bit rudimentary as it would seem you have to do it in a
per-application basis instead of being applied to the X session, like
Windows or Mac seem to do it [and they still have per-application settings])




However Scribus SVG support is rather flaky and most of the time
(except for really simple "kosher" SVG files) you will get an error
stating that some features of the file were not supported. Also it
tends to get the size "wrong", not the actual size of the drawing,
but rather it kind of adds an additional "holding box" to the
drawing. My personal recommendation when handling graphics with
Scribus would be to export to EPS and then import that into Scribus,
or export to bitmap (with the added side effect of reduced quality
and "raster artifacts" [pixelation]). Regarding color management, I'd
recommend you use the very latest snapshot of Scribus available from
the OpenSuSE repo (there is a Fedora yum repo for it) because the one
included in Fedora is quite outdated, and now largely unsupported (v
1.3.4), then you may grab the package with ICC profiles off Adobe's
download section and install one of those ICC profiles into scribus
so you get a color managed window (it is NOT recommended to install a
printer ICC profile into Scribus unless you *REALLY* need it and the
target printer supports it). Then you can generate the desired PDF
and you may even embed an ICC profile into it to ensure proper
display/print, don't forget to select the desired target media when
generating the PDF!


Is it effective to use the color profiles if your monitor isn't
calibrated? (I honestly don't know but I wouldn't assume so which is
why I don't bother with color profiles right now)


I assume that doing the artwork first in Inkscape and then importing
it into scribus and modifying the palette in Scribus to have the exact
CMYK colors needed will ensure the colors come out right in the end
since a CMYK value is a CMYK value (maybe not as reproducable as a
spot color but more reliable than picking blindly based on what shows
up on my monitor.) Past experience printing Fedora swag has shown this
to be close enough / true enough that I'm comfortable with this method.


The main problem with CMYK (again, at least in my experience) is that
support for this color space in Inkscape is MORE than flaky, it would
seem that color values "wouldn't stick", that may be due to the fact
that Inkscape follows as close as possible the SVG specification which
IIRC only support SRGB, and Inkscape actually converts those SRGB color
values to CMYK color space on-the-fly (or so I remember reading, albeit
some time ago, on the Inkscape mailing list, most likely things have
changed in 0.46, maybe I'll ask in the list again). I'm not sure if the
color values are perfectly preserved when you import the vector graphics
from Inkscape to Scribus (SVG, EPS or PS format), but I can tell you
that *perceptually* speaking it would seem that colors you *see* on the
screen (when you color manage Scribus, of course) indeed is the color
you *get* (or very close) on the print out. This, though good, is a bit
problematic, as you can't actually change the colors of the objects you
import into Scribus and can only see the resulting colors as they may be
printed, and any modifications imply that you have to go back to
Inkscape, modify the color, and "test" again in Scribus (at least that's
how I've done it, not the best way, though). Inkscape also supports (or
has initial support for) color management in 0.46, but I have not been
able to get reliable color representation with it. Another way I guess
would be to get this with The GIMP whose color management seems to be
more reliable than that of Inkscape and also support SVG files (both
read and write to), but I must confess I have not tried with it. What I
have done, though, is that since Inkscape has this color management
support, I load the same color pofile into it as I do on Scribus and I
seem to get much better results in that way. However this is with
perceived colors, and not specific *actual* values (like those of the
Fedora logo, and what is stipulated in the guidelines). I'll have to
play around with the color values of the logo and see how are they
represented in the different programs (The GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus) and
how do they actually "print" from the different programs.




However, i don't really know so much about using monitor profiles and
color profiles at all and if you do I would love some advice/help!


Thanks,
~m


I'm only starting to get into this whole new world (to me) of color
management, and have been following a few guides (for Mac or Windows,
and trying to apply them to LCMS and the array of programs that actually
support loading profiles, etc) and I can't yet say I "understand" a
whole lot. I understand the basic idea behind color management, and why
it is a must (especially in the print and publishing industries), and am
struggling to understand "color accuracy representation across media
types", etc. It would seem that with all these tools available, there is
no way to ensure 100% accurate color representation, there are simply
too many factors (no two monitors render colors exactly the same, no
two printers print colors exactly the same, regardless of the ink,
apparently there might even be slight colorimetric variations in two
different color cartridges from the *same vendor*, color perception may
even vary from person-to-person). I must confess that I'm only an
amateur at this, and am only starting to get into the theory behind the
magic of color management, publishing and design altogether.


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