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-   -   Echo Icon Theme Future (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-design-team/179494-echo-icon-theme-future.html)

Martin Sourada 10-20-2008 03:29 PM

Echo Icon Theme Future
 
Hi,

the last week's discussion about Echo was pretty fruitful I think and
showed that the general opinion is to not include Echo in F10 as a
default icon set. I take this as an opportunity to rethink the general
goals of echo and "give some credit" to various critics.

The main reason why *I* think not to have Echo in F10 as default is
incomplete coverage of other-than-48x48-px sizes and shortcomings of the
scalable icons that are supposed to fill the gap. We're slowly but
steadily improving that and I think Echo should not be submitted for
inclusion in Fedora as default icon set before this issue is resolved.

Next there is a general coverage where we are already close to gnome
upstream icon set. We will be improving that as well. I'd like to focus
on (nearly) full coverage of Desktop Live Spin, KDE Live Spin and XFCE
Live Spin (others as well, but I don't have them all in memory). So if
you are missing echo styled icons in your favourite application that is
included in one of those spins, feel free to file a bug [1]. It will not
be handled instantly, but it helps us deciding what icons need to be
done ;-)

That also pretty much summarize our main goal, which is similar to what
tango project has, to cover various desktops with one icon set.

Finally I'd like to throw some fuel for discussion (mainly on the
art-list). We are a lot criticized for inconsistencies in the projection
we use in echo. Strictly speaking we are using 3 different types of
projections and we have rules which is used where and we are pretty much
consistent with that. Especially we do not introduce any other different
projections to these and thus trying to keep the set consistent. In that
we are even better than gnome - I discovered a few of icons there that
does not adhere to their projection guidelines and have their own
(though usually only slightly different from the main types).

But on the other side it turns out that having three main types of
projections is too much for an icon set and that having two is about the
right number. So I started discovering the idea a bit more [2] with the
hope to come to some conclusions (in the future) about echo projection
guidelines. I am thinking about creating a parallel icon set that would
use echo guidelines sans the projection ones, but I have not yet decided
on the used type of projections.

My top candidate currently is perspective projection from a similar
viewpoint as used by gnome icon theme - that would much improve our
coexistence with it. I am attaching proof of concept icon sketches
following this projection rule. I plan to explore other types of
projections as well and write another blog post (a follow-up to [2])
later (but it will take some time, since I don't have much spare time
available for echo lately).

Comments welcome,
Martin

References:
[1] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/newticket
[2]
http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/2008/10/echo-icon-theme-perspective-part-i.html

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Martin Sourada 10-20-2008 03:29 PM

Echo Icon Theme Future
 
Hi,

the last week's discussion about Echo was pretty fruitful I think and
showed that the general opinion is to not include Echo in F10 as a
default icon set. I take this as an opportunity to rethink the general
goals of echo and "give some credit" to various critics.

The main reason why *I* think not to have Echo in F10 as default is
incomplete coverage of other-than-48x48-px sizes and shortcomings of the
scalable icons that are supposed to fill the gap. We're slowly but
steadily improving that and I think Echo should not be submitted for
inclusion in Fedora as default icon set before this issue is resolved.

Next there is a general coverage where we are already close to gnome
upstream icon set. We will be improving that as well. I'd like to focus
on (nearly) full coverage of Desktop Live Spin, KDE Live Spin and XFCE
Live Spin (others as well, but I don't have them all in memory). So if
you are missing echo styled icons in your favourite application that is
included in one of those spins, feel free to file a bug [1]. It will not
be handled instantly, but it helps us deciding what icons need to be
done ;-)

That also pretty much summarize our main goal, which is similar to what
tango project has, to cover various desktops with one icon set.

Finally I'd like to throw some fuel for discussion (mainly on the
art-list). We are a lot criticized for inconsistencies in the projection
we use in echo. Strictly speaking we are using 3 different types of
projections and we have rules which is used where and we are pretty much
consistent with that. Especially we do not introduce any other different
projections to these and thus trying to keep the set consistent. In that
we are even better than gnome - I discovered a few of icons there that
does not adhere to their projection guidelines and have their own
(though usually only slightly different from the main types).

But on the other side it turns out that having three main types of
projections is too much for an icon set and that having two is about the
right number. So I started discovering the idea a bit more [2] with the
hope to come to some conclusions (in the future) about echo projection
guidelines. I am thinking about creating a parallel icon set that would
use echo guidelines sans the projection ones, but I have not yet decided
on the used type of projections.

My top candidate currently is perspective projection from a similar
viewpoint as used by gnome icon theme - that would much improve our
coexistence with it. I am attaching proof of concept icon sketches
following this projection rule. I plan to explore other types of
projections as well and write another blog post (a follow-up to [2])
later (but it will take some time, since I don't have much spare time
available for echo lately).

Comments welcome,
Martin

References:
[1] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/newticket
[2]
http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/2008/10/echo-icon-theme-perspective-part-i.html

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"Hylke Bons" 10-20-2008 07:29 PM

Echo Icon Theme Future
 
"That also pretty much summarize our main goal, which is similar to what
tango project has, to cover various desktops with one icon set."

Well, with one style. Huge difference.

I'm still not a fan of the isometric view of the bigger icons, i think
it causes most of the noise in the icons.
Also, I do not see a need for that particular viewpoint.

Anyway, the new perspective icons look much crispier. Good job! :)

Hylke

2008/10/20 Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@gmail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> the last week's discussion about Echo was pretty fruitful I think and
> showed that the general opinion is to not include Echo in F10 as a
> default icon set. I take this as an opportunity to rethink the general
> goals of echo and "give some credit" to various critics.
>
> The main reason why *I* think not to have Echo in F10 as default is
> incomplete coverage of other-than-48x48-px sizes and shortcomings of the
> scalable icons that are supposed to fill the gap. We're slowly but
> steadily improving that and I think Echo should not be submitted for
> inclusion in Fedora as default icon set before this issue is resolved.
>
> Next there is a general coverage where we are already close to gnome
> upstream icon set. We will be improving that as well. I'd like to focus
> on (nearly) full coverage of Desktop Live Spin, KDE Live Spin and XFCE
> Live Spin (others as well, but I don't have them all in memory). So if
> you are missing echo styled icons in your favourite application that is
> included in one of those spins, feel free to file a bug [1]. It will not
> be handled instantly, but it helps us deciding what icons need to be
> done ;-)
>
> That also pretty much summarize our main goal, which is similar to what
> tango project has, to cover various desktops with one icon set.
>
> Finally I'd like to throw some fuel for discussion (mainly on the
> art-list). We are a lot criticized for inconsistencies in the projection
> we use in echo. Strictly speaking we are using 3 different types of
> projections and we have rules which is used where and we are pretty much
> consistent with that. Especially we do not introduce any other different
> projections to these and thus trying to keep the set consistent. In that
> we are even better than gnome - I discovered a few of icons there that
> does not adhere to their projection guidelines and have their own
> (though usually only slightly different from the main types).
>
> But on the other side it turns out that having three main types of
> projections is too much for an icon set and that having two is about the
> right number. So I started discovering the idea a bit more [2] with the
> hope to come to some conclusions (in the future) about echo projection
> guidelines. I am thinking about creating a parallel icon set that would
> use echo guidelines sans the projection ones, but I have not yet decided
> on the used type of projections.
>
> My top candidate currently is perspective projection from a similar
> viewpoint as used by gnome icon theme - that would much improve our
> coexistence with it. I am attaching proof of concept icon sketches
> following this projection rule. I plan to explore other types of
> projections as well and write another blog post (a follow-up to [2])
> later (but it will take some time, since I don't have much spare time
> available for echo lately).
>
> Comments welcome,
> Martin
>
> References:
> [1] https://fedorahosted.org/echo-icon-theme/newticket
> [2]
> http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/2008/10/echo-icon-theme-perspective-part-i.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fedora-art-list mailing list
> Fedora-art-list@redhat.com
> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
>
>

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Luya Tshimbalanga 10-20-2008 08:13 PM

Echo Icon Theme Future
 
Martin Sourada a écrit :
> Finally I'd like to throw some fuel for discussion (mainly on the
> art-list). We are a lot criticized for inconsistencies in the projection
> we use in echo. Strictly speaking we are using 3 different types of
> projections and we have rules which is used where and we are pretty much
> consistent with that. Especially we do not introduce any other different
> projections to these and thus trying to keep the set consistent. In that
> we are even better than gnome - I discovered a few of icons there that
> does not adhere to their projection guidelines and have their own
> (though usually only slightly different from the main types).
>
> But on the other side it turns out that having three main types of
> projections is too much for an icon set and that having two is about the
> right number. So I started discovering the idea a bit more [2] with the
> hope to come to some conclusions (in the future) about echo projection
> guidelines. I am thinking about creating a parallel icon set that would
> use echo guidelines sans the projection ones, but I have not yet decided
> on the used type of projections.
>
Quick comment,

I remember having a discussion with Maírín about setting perspective for
24x24 and less icons. Perhaps applying that illustrated perspectivs to
all categories at those sizes might help. Spherical icons will have much
impact.
Extra small icons (16x16) should stay flat due to their size.

Luya

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Martin Sourada 10-20-2008 08:29 PM

Echo Icon Theme Future
 
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 13:13 -0700, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote:
> Martin Sourada a écrit :
> > Finally I'd like to throw some fuel for discussion (mainly on the
> > art-list). We are a lot criticized for inconsistencies in the projection
> > we use in echo. Strictly speaking we are using 3 different types of
> > projections and we have rules which is used where and we are pretty much
> > consistent with that. Especially we do not introduce any other different
> > projections to these and thus trying to keep the set consistent. In that
> > we are even better than gnome - I discovered a few of icons there that
> > does not adhere to their projection guidelines and have their own
> > (though usually only slightly different from the main types).
> >
> > But on the other side it turns out that having three main types of
> > projections is too much for an icon set and that having two is about the
> > right number. So I started discovering the idea a bit more [2] with the
> > hope to come to some conclusions (in the future) about echo projection
> > guidelines. I am thinking about creating a parallel icon set that would
> > use echo guidelines sans the projection ones, but I have not yet decided
> > on the used type of projections.
> >
> Quick comment,
>
> I remember having a discussion with Maírín about setting perspective for
> 24x24 and less icons. Perhaps applying that illustrated perspectivs to
> all categories at those sizes might help. Spherical icons will have much
> impact.
> Extra small icons (16x16) should stay flat due to their size.
>
> Luya

16x16 should be definitely flat, I am still considering whether 24x24 as
well, but seeing how gnome handles that, probably not...

Martin
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Luya Tshimbalanga 10-24-2008 06:20 AM

Echo Icon Theme Future
 
> 16x16 should be definitely flat, I am still considering whether 24x24 as
> well, but seeing how gnome handles that, probably not...
>
> Martin
Since 22x22 and 24x24 appears to be the main problem, perhaps using
table perspective
might do the trick.

Luya

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