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-   -   Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@ (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-advisory-board/713197-request-ban-harald-reindl-devel.html)

Adam Williamson 05-02-2013 08:58 PM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
You know, I think it's time for this.

Harald Reindl is a permanently poisonous presence on devel@. He seems to
trigger or be involved in the majority of the flame wars on there. He is
rude and disrespectful to other list participants and has behaved in
this way for years, despite multiple attempts by multiple parties to
persuade him to amend his approach.

As I understand it, he is already on permanent moderation; none of his
mails go directly to the list, all are moderated, and some of his mails
do appear not to be allowed to reach the list. However, it seems he has
started CCing his messages directly to the person to whom he is
replying. The copy of the mail directed to the list is held for
moderation and, if it is too offensive, blocked, but the copy sent
directly to the other party of course is delivered directly. Sometimes,
these mails will be still look a lot like they are part of the list to
the recipient, who will reply to them - including the list address - and
hence Harald's crap reaches the list despite the moderation. We saw an
example of this yesterday (the "take your bullshit from public mailing
lists" mail) - particularly damaging as it was also sent to users@ - and
I've seen other examples in the past (it may even have happened to me).
I don't blame Richard Vickery and the other recipients for this, I blame
Harald.

Frankly, I've had enough of this crap, and I think a lot of others have
too. I would like to formally propose that we permanently ban him from
devel@, and possibly other lists as well, at least high profile ones. I
would be happy to see him kicked out of the project entirely, but I
thought a more limited proposal would be better.

This has nothing to do with Red Hat vs. 'the community', of course.
Harald is rude and disrespectful to just about everyone else, RHers or
non-RHers. Non-RHers, by my estimation, are as sick of him as everyone
else. He is poisoning our community as a whole, I am sure he is part of
the reason our lists can look unfriendly to many, and we should not
allow this to continue. He clearly has no intention of reforming his
behaviour, and the moderation solution is not working well enough. It's
time for more drastic measures.

I don't think this sets any kind of worrying precedent. We have plenty
of personalities who are somewhat abrasive and we manage that well
enough. I'm not advocating some sort of purge. But I think Harald's is
an extreme and ongoing case that is causing significant damage to
Fedora, and we would be justified in banning him - and only him - from
the list or the community as a whole.

Thanks!
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Adam Williamson 05-02-2013 09:26 PM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 13:58 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:

> Frankly, I've had enough of this crap, and I think a lot of others have
> too. I would like to formally propose that we permanently ban him from
> devel@, and possibly other lists as well, at least high profile ones. I
> would be happy to see him kicked out of the project entirely, but I
> thought a more limited proposal would be better.

Let's broaden it to at least devel@ and users@. I'm told he posts on
users@ and is, if anything, worse than on devel@. That seems even more
damaging, as users@ is a very 'public-facing' list.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net

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"Paul W. Frields" 05-02-2013 10:05 PM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 02:26:20PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 13:58 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> > Frankly, I've had enough of this crap, and I think a lot of others have
> > too. I would like to formally propose that we permanently ban him from
> > devel@, and possibly other lists as well, at least high profile ones. I
> > would be happy to see him kicked out of the project entirely, but I
> > thought a more limited proposal would be better.
>
> Let's broaden it to at least devel@ and users@. I'm told he posts on
> users@ and is, if anything, worse than on devel@. That seems even more
> damaging, as users@ is a very 'public-facing' list.

I can contribute to this conversation with some input from the users@
list but I'm not sure advisory-board@ is the right forum for it.

I'm going to bcc the users moderators group so they're aware of this
thread but don't have to receive multiple copies of the thread.

--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com
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David Nalley 05-02-2013 10:08 PM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 02:26:20PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 13:58 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>>
>> > Frankly, I've had enough of this crap, and I think a lot of others have
>> > too. I would like to formally propose that we permanently ban him from
>> > devel@, and possibly other lists as well, at least high profile ones. I
>> > would be happy to see him kicked out of the project entirely, but I
>> > thought a more limited proposal would be better.
>>
>> Let's broaden it to at least devel@ and users@. I'm told he posts on
>> users@ and is, if anything, worse than on devel@. That seems even more
>> damaging, as users@ is a very 'public-facing' list.
>
> I can contribute to this conversation with some input from the users@
> list but I'm not sure advisory-board@ is the right forum for it.
>
> I'm going to bcc the users moderators group so they're aware of this
> thread but don't have to receive multiple copies of the thread.
>

Agreed - this belongs on board-private IMO.

--David
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Adam Williamson 05-02-2013 10:18 PM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 18:08 -0400, David Nalley wrote:

> > I can contribute to this conversation with some input from the users@
> > list but I'm not sure advisory-board@ is the right forum for it.
> >
> > I'm going to bcc the users moderators group so they're aware of this
> > thread but don't have to receive multiple copies of the thread.
> >
>
> Agreed - this belongs on board-private IMO.

I've no objection at all to moving it if you feel that's appropriate. I
don't think I have access to those mails, but I don't have much more to
say :)
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net

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inode0 05-03-2013 01:37 AM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 02:26:20PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 13:58 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>>
>> > Frankly, I've had enough of this crap, and I think a lot of others have
>> > too. I would like to formally propose that we permanently ban him from
>> > devel@, and possibly other lists as well, at least high profile ones. I
>> > would be happy to see him kicked out of the project entirely, but I
>> > thought a more limited proposal would be better.
>>
>> Let's broaden it to at least devel@ and users@. I'm told he posts on
>> users@ and is, if anything, worse than on devel@. That seems even more
>> damaging, as users@ is a very 'public-facing' list.
>
> I can contribute to this conversation with some input from the users@
> list but I'm not sure advisory-board@ is the right forum for it.
>
> I'm going to bcc the users moderators group so they're aware of this
> thread but don't have to receive multiple copies of the thread.

In addition to the list moderators I would recommend referring this to the CWG.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group

John
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Adam Williamson 05-03-2013 02:15 AM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 20:37 -0500, inode0 wrote:
> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 02:26:20PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 13:58 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >>
> >> > Frankly, I've had enough of this crap, and I think a lot of others have
> >> > too. I would like to formally propose that we permanently ban him from
> >> > devel@, and possibly other lists as well, at least high profile ones. I
> >> > would be happy to see him kicked out of the project entirely, but I
> >> > thought a more limited proposal would be better.
> >>
> >> Let's broaden it to at least devel@ and users@. I'm told he posts on
> >> users@ and is, if anything, worse than on devel@. That seems even more
> >> damaging, as users@ is a very 'public-facing' list.
> >
> > I can contribute to this conversation with some input from the users@
> > list but I'm not sure advisory-board@ is the right forum for it.
> >
> > I'm going to bcc the users moderators group so they're aware of this
> > thread but don't have to receive multiple copies of the thread.
>
> In addition to the list moderators I would recommend referring this to the CWG.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group

D'oh. I was trying to think of the most appropriate group, but
completely whiffed on that one. Noted for future reference, though I
sincerely hope this never arises again.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski 05-07-2013 10:40 PM

Request: ban Harald Reindl from devel@
 
On Thursday, 02 May 2013 at 23:26, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-05-02 at 13:58 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> > Frankly, I've had enough of this crap, and I think a lot of others have
> > too. I would like to formally propose that we permanently ban him from
> > devel@, and possibly other lists as well, at least high profile ones. I
> > would be happy to see him kicked out of the project entirely, but I
> > thought a more limited proposal would be better.
>
> Let's broaden it to at least devel@ and users@. I'm told he posts on
> users@ and is, if anything, worse than on devel@. That seems even more
> damaging, as users@ is a very 'public-facing' list.

For the record, he does this on other projects' mailing lists as well.
x264 and RPMFusion are examples.

Regards,
--
Fedora http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Rathann
RPMFusion http://rpmfusion.org | MPlayer http://mplayerhq.hu
"Faith manages."
-- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations"
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