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Old 09-26-2012, 09:22 PM
"Eric "Sparks" Christensen"
 
Default Mailing list discussion

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During today's meeting we discussed different options for Board
mailing lists. The first idea was to implement a 'Board-Public'
mailing list that would allow Board members to discuss ideas while
allowing those communications to be public (both the archive and in
real-time via regular subscriptions). This would differ from the
Advisory-Board list where the public also has the ability to
communicate with the Board members in public. There was much
discussion about this proposal which evolved into the second proposal:
we keep everything the same.

Neither proposal had enough votes to pass. There was a common
argument to both proposals which was that they had both been tried
before and failed in the past.

Does anyone have any ideas on these proposals?

- -Eric

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Old 09-26-2012, 09:42 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Mailing list discussion

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 17:22:41 -0400,
"Eric "Sparks" Christensen" <sparks@fedoraproject.org> wrote:


Does anyone have any ideas on these proposals?


How about trying to use the advisory-board list and see if things get too
cluttered by non-board members? If it does than create a board-public list.

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Old 09-27-2012, 12:04 AM
inode0
 
Default Mailing list discussion

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Eric "Sparks" Christensen
<sparks@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> During today's meeting we discussed different options for Board
> mailing lists. The first idea was to implement a 'Board-Public'
> mailing list that would allow Board members to discuss ideas while
> allowing those communications to be public (both the archive and in
> real-time via regular subscriptions). This would differ from the
> Advisory-Board list where the public also has the ability to
> communicate with the Board members in public. There was much
> discussion about this proposal which evolved into the second proposal:
> we keep everything the same.
>
> Neither proposal had enough votes to pass. There was a common
> argument to both proposals which was that they had both been tried
> before and failed in the past.

So, while both may have failed in the past, without a better idea for
how to accomplish the goal of doing more work in public view I think
we should go ahead and try again. Past failure may have been caused by
many things and the infrastructure used may not be the reason it
failed. With enough resolve on the part of the Board perhaps we can
make it work this time. If not, we can always try something else.

After thinking about the IRC discussion this afternoon I'm inclined to
try using this list first.

> Does anyone have any ideas on these proposals?

I'd be happy to hear other suggestions for ways we could be more open as well.

John
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:57 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Mailing list discussion

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 05:22:41PM -0400, Eric Sparks Christensen wrote:
> mailing lists. The first idea was to implement a 'Board-Public'
> mailing list that would allow Board members to discuss ideas while
> allowing those communications to be public (both the archive and in
> real-time via regular subscriptions). This would differ from the
> Advisory-Board list where the public also has the ability to
> communicate with the Board members in public. There was much

I'm in favor of using this list, *or* the main devel list. Traffic is down
dramatically from the busy times of 2007-2009. In fact, it looks like busy
days now are basically up to the level of slow periods back then:

http://gmane.org/plot-rate.php?group=gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel

I think decreased engagement overall is a bigger problem than noise at this
point, and I don't think more lists will help.

--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ <mattdm@fedoraproject.org>
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:48 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default Mailing list discussion

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 01:57:44PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 05:22:41PM -0400, Eric Sparks Christensen wrote:
> > mailing lists. The first idea was to implement a 'Board-Public'
> > mailing list that would allow Board members to discuss ideas while
> > allowing those communications to be public (both the archive and in
> > real-time via regular subscriptions). This would differ from the
> > Advisory-Board list where the public also has the ability to
> > communicate with the Board members in public. There was much
>
> I'm in favor of using this list, *or* the main devel list. Traffic is down
> dramatically from the busy times of 2007-2009. In fact, it looks like busy
> days now are basically up to the level of slow periods back then:
>
> http://gmane.org/plot-rate.php?group=gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel
>
> I think decreased engagement overall is a bigger problem than noise at this
> point, and I don't think more lists will help.
>
The real question is -- how is engagement from Board Members on Board
issues? If the engagement of Board members to topics on this list doesn't
go up then we've just shifted the problem from the board-private list to the
weekly meetings. That is problematic for two reasons:

1) The phone meetings are even more private than the board-private list....
we can, at least, talk about forwarding all of the mailed discussions that
went on there. We have no such capability to publish what was talked about
on the phone.

2) Attendance at Board meetings -- while we usually have quorum, we seldom
have 100% attendance (that's happened maybe two or three times that I've
been on the Board). That's okay for voting on issues. But not ideal for
discussing them and the process of redrafting proposals until they reach
consensus.

-Toshio
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